Detail-Brushes make Portals?

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wacko
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Detail-Brushes make Portals?

Post by wacko »

1st :?: : Is there anything written about Portals which is understandable for a noob?
2nd :?: : Making a brush detail works like this: selecting the brush, right click in 2D-view on it and select "Make detail", which turns it green??
3rd :?: : These details make Portals which I thought them not to do? Well, atleast they make lot of green lines when using r_showportal 1 in the console. Is this okay?
4th :?: : Is it good to have billions of these portal-lines or rather bad?
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Post by jv_map »

  1. http://www.modtheater.com/forum/showthr ... eadid=4467
  2. Yup.
  3. No, something is wrong. Don't compile with -fulldetail.
  4. Very bad for compile times. Not necessarily bad for framerate, sometimes even good :?.
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wacko
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Post by wacko »

1st: I've found this one before, and was hoping to get sth else from you. Will give it another try, though
2nd: Okay, atleast this was done correctly
3rd: Something? It's me! I'm so stupid! I KNEW this, and once again wanted to make it extra-well-done! :oops:
4th: I learned about the disadvantage for compile-times

Thanks for your patience and advice!!!
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wacko
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Post by wacko »

Fine, I've read it again (and again and again) :?

Now, in my map I still have no idea of where to make brushes structural or detail. :? :?

Atleast, the structural brushes I thought to make sense don't and turning on 'r_showtris 2' shows triangles that I really can't explain to be visible :? :? :?

Is there a map I could examine, where this stuff works? I tried TheCanal as it was so high-rated, but r_showtris 2 fills up the screen with white lines, too. :shock:
Or... if this was fine, my map wouldn't be that bad: It looks quiet similar in this mode. :wink:
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Post by TheStorm »

Wacko wrote:Atleast, the structural brushes I thought to make sense don't and turning on 'r_showtris 2' shows triangles that I really can't explain to be visible :? :? :?
I guess you have read the Vis for dummies! Structural brushes block the view beetween portals but it's difficult to exactly tell how the portals are in game. In corridor map it's quite easy to have the portals exactly as you want them to get high FPS, it's more difficult outside.

Doesn't matter if you standing infront of a high wall, things on the other side might get draw depending on how the portal are made. I've got a simplified picture with two portals and a thin wall, As a player you cant see to the other side but the engine will because the portal can see to the other side. Don't get fooled by my arrow that goes from the player and up into the other portal, it doesn't really have anything with the player to do. It's allways what the portal that the player are inside that decides what will be drawn.
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A portal face is like a window and any other portal that can be seen from that window will be drawn. You might not think that the portal can see anything but if you have a map where you got a lot of high portals up to the skybox then they can all see eachother unless you have some structural roofs that touches the sky box.

Hint/vis and regular structural brushes should help you to make splits that creates new portals and prevents the straight line of sight between portals.

Picture two is an example with three portals, because the structural brushes have split the map into 3 portals, portal no 1 will never see portal 3 because you can't draw a straight line from anywhere on portal 1 to portal 3. Portal 3 won't be drawn when the player are in portal 1, when the player are in portal 2 all portals will be drawn and if the player are in portal 3, portal 1 won't be drawn.
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Also remeber that lod terrain, models etc does not block the view, If you use lod then you might need to put caulk brushes under it to get portals that won't see to much. If you make a map with ground only made out of lod and then start making houses and stuff above and really plan for VIS above ground, then you might get terrible fps anyways because a lot of the portals will go down under the lod, and there they will be able to see eachother because nothing blocks the view.

Structural brushes block the view, the reason to use detail is that a lot of brushes will never block the view. If you make a map and put in a 1x1x1 unit brush that are structural then it will split your map into several new portals. But those portals will still be able to see eachother, that's why you should make it detail. The same goes for a stair, rails, nice small stuff that you make out of brushes etc.
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wacko
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Post by wacko »

Thank you vm for this detailed explanation! I surely understand more and more of this each time I read about it and play a bit around in mohr!

Exploring maps of me and others, I think this topic should be discussed much more, especially when games like DOOM3 are approaching, where maps built without optimized vis will be a much bigger prob than in mohaa where this lack can be redeemed by pure CPU-power even of current PCs.

Unfortunatly in my gain in knowledge I learned to understand, that trying to optimize this VIS-aspect in a ALREADY BUILT map is too late. For a optimal map from this point of view, one must keep this VIS-thing in mind WHILE building!

I think you could compare it with statics in real-life architecture, and having resources like your 'vis for dummies', we should stop building cathedrals with domes and columns that may or may not crash like in medieval times. In the moment, we have concrete which is enormously strong for the buildings we build, but next-gen buildings will be much wider and higher with our concrete still being the same. blablabla... :roll:

In the end of your vis-for-dummies' you wrote 'to be continued'! Do so and let us know about it!
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