I dunno I just think Radiant is a disease, my map as started to develope black patches on the corners of LOD terrain where it was fine before on the last 20 or whatever versions, its speading SAVE by SAVE around the map! stuff like models come and go, its all a bit hit and miss.
GOD HELP ME!
CDC URGENT REPORT : BLACK PATCH DISEASE EPIDEMIC SPEADING
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Oddball_Woof
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Oddball_Woof
- Sergeant
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2002 9:32 am
- Location: London UK
Cheers mate for the reply, first let me say I read your interview on TMT and all your posts there, if only you ran EA I'm sure we'd have a real SKD by now, your patience and help to less knowledgable mappers is deeply appreciated. By the way your not the only one to gat map names wrong, the American plans for Operation Bigot, the assault on Pointe Du Hoc incorrectly named it Pointe Du Hoe and it wasn't realised until long after, the present day Rangers site still refers to it by the incorrect name. Perhaps it was their fault too in your case LOL, after all most Yanks think the next State is a foreign country (sorry Yanks 
).
But then I had no idea from feature films where it always seems to be finished in 10 mins they also had to hold the area for 2 days on their own until relieved from Omaha beach, so names weren't really as important as the bravery and determination they showed.
My map which is only a test area map is a compiled map, the black patched aren't visible in Radiant, I had a worse occurance of this phenomena with my Pointe Du Hoc map which I have had to restart now as ALL the terrain went black after compile that was EasyGen generated brushes ( a big mistake! millions of them) where as this is LOD terrain.
Yet perhaps in a way your on the right track, as its the scale of the map and the amount of terrain that might be a factor.
The present test area map is medium sized but packed with models and mixed terrain, AIs and lots of brushes 5mb worth.
I will try delete some more stuff and see what happens.
Question is it OK to overlap mesh and patch based cylinders and bevels etc with brushes sometimes no matter how hard I try its impossible to line up the edges of two adjacent endcaps so theres a small tear in the visible face, I try to lose these into textured brushes.
Its seems at times Radiant just plonks object into the map in between grids so its half a unit either way and impossible sometimes to fix.
Is it advisable or not to place a calked brush inside Endcaps etc for example the curved semi-dome of a building roof that is quite large visible around the map.
ta
).But then I had no idea from feature films where it always seems to be finished in 10 mins they also had to hold the area for 2 days on their own until relieved from Omaha beach, so names weren't really as important as the bravery and determination they showed.
My map which is only a test area map is a compiled map, the black patched aren't visible in Radiant, I had a worse occurance of this phenomena with my Pointe Du Hoc map which I have had to restart now as ALL the terrain went black after compile that was EasyGen generated brushes ( a big mistake! millions of them) where as this is LOD terrain.
Yet perhaps in a way your on the right track, as its the scale of the map and the amount of terrain that might be a factor.
The present test area map is medium sized but packed with models and mixed terrain, AIs and lots of brushes 5mb worth.
I will try delete some more stuff and see what happens.
Question is it OK to overlap mesh and patch based cylinders and bevels etc with brushes sometimes no matter how hard I try its impossible to line up the edges of two adjacent endcaps so theres a small tear in the visible face, I try to lose these into textured brushes.
Its seems at times Radiant just plonks object into the map in between grids so its half a unit either way and impossible sometimes to fix.
Is it advisable or not to place a calked brush inside Endcaps etc for example the curved semi-dome of a building roof that is quite large visible around the map.
ta
Thanks a lot for your kind words. I just try to help where I can. We haven't got much documentation or technical assistance, so we all have to pass what we know on to others.
But on to your problem. This black spotting occurs in game not in the editor? I haven't seen that type of problem in a few years, but I believe it was caused by a combination of factors (graphics memory, drivers, video settings and lighting in the map). What video card do you have and how much memory does it have?
Overlapping brushes/meshes slows down the compile process, but it's unavoidable in lots of cases. You have to close off the ends of those meshes some way. Just try not to do it on the same plane, or you will get z-fighting. Try to use "snap to grid" as much as possible. It will minimize these types of problems and improve your compile time.
Placing a brush that's all caulk doesn't do anything. A caulk texture just tells the engine not to render this face. It doesn't affect any other surfaces or brushes. I'm not sure what you are hoping to accomplish.
But on to your problem. This black spotting occurs in game not in the editor? I haven't seen that type of problem in a few years, but I believe it was caused by a combination of factors (graphics memory, drivers, video settings and lighting in the map). What video card do you have and how much memory does it have?
Overlapping brushes/meshes slows down the compile process, but it's unavoidable in lots of cases. You have to close off the ends of those meshes some way. Just try not to do it on the same plane, or you will get z-fighting. Try to use "snap to grid" as much as possible. It will minimize these types of problems and improve your compile time.
Placing a brush that's all caulk doesn't do anything. A caulk texture just tells the engine not to render this face. It doesn't affect any other surfaces or brushes. I'm not sure what you are hoping to accomplish.
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Oddball_Woof
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- Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2002 9:32 am
- Location: London UK
Ah I was think about vis and the practice I have read about but find hard to imagine implementing in MOH except in very simple circumstances of I hope I get this right.... place structural calk brushes inside walls that are detailed though I am not use how this helps the compile over a simple structural brush. I assume it means the compiler doesn't 'see' the detailed outter brush then in game engine doesn't 'see' thru the wall because of the structural brush.
I not sure I explained that correctly, I was thinking that meshes are very thin how well does the engine handle vis thru them particularly if they are in a critical combat area where you want the engine to see the structure correctly so LOS is properly blocked both visually for player and for the engine ie no "how the hell he shoot me thru wall" syndrome.
I expect this sounds a bit confused.
I read that it was recommended to keep walls at least 16 units thick.
The black patches are in game not in radiant but not all the time, just on certain maps with large numbers of brushes and/or entities.
My system is:
AMD AthlonXP 1600+
256MB SDRAM Dimm
NV Geforce2 MX400 PCI 64mb
5gig free on C drive for virtual memory
ALL my drivers (DX, Mboard etc) are up to date except for the NV drivers which the last 2 releases of detonator my card/windows had issues with.
My clean version of MOH which I edit on is run at near full detail and graphics so that I can check the fps and visuals at full stretch.
My playing version is somewhat lower spec.
I not sure I explained that correctly, I was thinking that meshes are very thin how well does the engine handle vis thru them particularly if they are in a critical combat area where you want the engine to see the structure correctly so LOS is properly blocked both visually for player and for the engine ie no "how the hell he shoot me thru wall" syndrome.
I expect this sounds a bit confused.
I read that it was recommended to keep walls at least 16 units thick.
The black patches are in game not in radiant but not all the time, just on certain maps with large numbers of brushes and/or entities.
My system is:
AMD AthlonXP 1600+
256MB SDRAM Dimm
NV Geforce2 MX400 PCI 64mb
5gig free on C drive for virtual memory
ALL my drivers (DX, Mboard etc) are up to date except for the NV drivers which the last 2 releases of detonator my card/windows had issues with.
My clean version of MOH which I edit on is run at near full detail and graphics so that I can check the fps and visuals at full stretch.
My playing version is somewhat lower spec.
The player model is bigger than the bounding box that controls where the model will fit, plus the weapon sticks out even more (with no bounding box). You make walls thicker (like 16 units) or put clip brushes behind meshes to compensate for the difference between model size and bounding box size. Actually you need to do this all over your map, even the terrain, or you may get clipping (part of the model/weapon sticks out or is cut off). You never put caulk faces where they are visible. They create a void in your map.
If this black spotting occurs in maps you have built, I'd like to see the map files. Given your specs, the only conclusion I can draw is that you have exceeded the engines capabilities and caused rendering errors. I average a few of those every map.
If this black spotting occurs in maps you have built, I'd like to see the map files. Given your specs, the only conclusion I can draw is that you have exceeded the engines capabilities and caused rendering errors. I average a few of those every map.
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Oddball_Woof
- Sergeant
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2002 9:32 am
- Location: London UK
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Oddball_Woof
- Sergeant
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2002 9:32 am
- Location: London UK
-
Oddball_Woof
- Sergeant
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2002 9:32 am
- Location: London UK
Why don't you just e-mail me the map file? You can send it to me at: jpoulakos@wi.rr.com
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You have a couple of lighting problems.
First the LOD black spots are caused by corners of loose patches that are too close to the overlaying terrain. You can fix it by changing the bulge to narrow and the amount to 64 (Shift A) and draging down the corners and edges. It helps to put LOD on scale 1 because it show the true surface.
The gun and door are model lighting problems. Try turning the gun into a script_model and lighting it with entity only lights. The door probably just needs to be replaced, but check to make sure that the edge is not overlaped when closed.
Hope that helps some.
You have a couple of lighting problems.
First the LOD black spots are caused by corners of loose patches that are too close to the overlaying terrain. You can fix it by changing the bulge to narrow and the amount to 64 (Shift A) and draging down the corners and edges. It helps to put LOD on scale 1 because it show the true surface.
The gun and door are model lighting problems. Try turning the gun into a script_model and lighting it with entity only lights. The door probably just needs to be replaced, but check to make sure that the edge is not overlaped when closed.
Hope that helps some.
Last edited by tltrude on Sun Aug 18, 2002 1:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tom Trude,
