Hollowing out brushes

[Jugement Dernier]

Just a simple question from a total newbie.

Do we or do we not hollow out shapes in Radient, and maybe as an extra... W H Y.!

thanks .

[wacko]

No! We don't!

WHY? Because the resulting brushes aren't the way they should be:
Examining one edge of that box,
Hollowing does this:
| |
|_|___
L_|___

and it should be like this:
| |
| |___
|/____
(these wonderful pictures are stolen from one of Bjarne's posts!)

[Sonsai]

I hollow... and I don't see a problem with it...

[wacko]

You ought to find that at all edges the brushes overlap. And you surely won't say that's fine for you? The results is worse FPS and Z-fighting!

[Sonsai]

Well what I do is after I hollow I just go un-overlap them. I usually drag the top brushes away, and bring the side ones up. Does that redeem for hollowing it?

[wacko]

yep. but don't forget to make these diagonal connections (I know they have a name ) at edges which can be seen from 'outside', i.e. in places where the player would see an additional face.
| |
|_|___
L____
(3 faces from outside)

| |
| |___
|/____
(2 faces from outside)

I find hollowing rather seldom useful, because it makes a brush for each face and mostly I don't need one on every side, and dragging a new brush doesn't take much longer, but do as you are comfortable!

[TheShiznaeSpe]

yep. but don't forget to make these diagonal connections (I know they have a name )

the method is called mitering the walls

[tltrude]

I have seen maps where people hollow out closed boxes and there is no need for that, unless you are going to make one side a func_create. Solid shapes are better for vis compiliing. Beleveling the edges of walls helps to reduce the face count and improve light leaks. And, don't forget to caulk all the faces players will never see.

[Jugement Dernier]

Thanks guys..........and the winner is....not to hollow.

Very entertaining and its reassuring to see that many of you know what they are talking about


thanks again

[Sonsai]

Whats the good of mitering walls?

[tltrude]

You can apply caulk to both the mitered faces, but with a butt joint, only one face can be caulked. Reducing the face count improves preformence. Also, mitered corners have less chance of leaking light at the joint. And, inside textures fits better, if part of the face is not hidden behind another wall.

Nuff said?

[Sonsai]

I see, but my walls are like this:

| |
| |
|_|___
|_____

Erhm.. lets see if I can make a better drawing.

|aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa|
|aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa|
|aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa|
|_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ |

That is one wall.

Then here is my other one, side view:

|aaaaaa|
|aaaaaa|
|_ _ _ _|

So as you can see class... erhm... as you can see tltrude. No two walls in my room occupy the same space. Is that almost the same as mitering walls? Or should I just miter walls?

[General Death]

As far as face counts you caulk two faces versus one when you miter like Tltrude said thus lowering your face count...thats a very good thing . You will also end up with walls consisting of one face rather then two which is a "cleaner" way to map imho.

A Butt Joint:



A Miter Joint:



See the diff? A miter joint removes unneeded faces

To miter a brush hightlight it and then hit "E". Blue boxes will appear in the corners and center of each edge of the brush. Click on the edge/corner you want to modify and drag

[Surgeon]

Mitering has always been a grey area when it comes to all the games I have mapped for....Halflife, Quake and MOH ..... I generally use it mainly out of force of habit more than anything else and it does seem to cut down on light leaking through walls etc......