Bombed city
Moderator: Moderators
Bombed city
Does anybody know of a styleguide that shows you how to make good looking bombed buildings? I wanna make a bombed city, but dont know where to start.
I think id suggest looking at reference material say from google using the search "bombed city" i got this http://www.northstarcompass.org/nsc0008/yugo6.jpg which may be a bit to complex
Then when you've got your reference materials start constructing your building in full then destroy it
i've played around with some before from putting craters in streets, holes in house floors, removing a hole face from a house etc.... your brushes don't exactly need to be clean angles neither as its destroyed.
Hope it helps
Then when you've got your reference materials start constructing your building in full then destroy it
i've played around with some before from putting craters in streets, holes in house floors, removing a hole face from a house etc.... your brushes don't exactly need to be clean angles neither as its destroyed.Hope it helps
.MDT Webmaster, Mapper, Moddeler & Concept Artist
.Map Reviewer
http://www.shiftys-bunker.tk Under Construction
.Map Reviewer
http://www.shiftys-bunker.tk Under Construction
I have the same question...
Alcoholic,
You may want to try to decompile some of the mohaa stock bsp's, then
select whole buildings and put them in a prefab where you can then edit
out what you don't want, such as script_orig, nav points, pathnodes, splinenodes etc., so that they do not conflict with your destination map.
I am doing this very thing at present, using some of the houses from the
m3l3 map. Problem is the two buildlings I choose, are riddled with crap
that must be removed..... tons of duplicate planes, evil nodes etc. I have
spent a lot of time just trying to clean up my map once I imported the prefabs file I had saved the originals to. So if you go this route, do your
best to remove anything other then clean brushes etc..
Also, in the case I mention here, it seems like whoever created those buildings did not make them detailed etc.. Every frigen brush seems to be a world spawn...... So what I am doing is using the original as a templete that I can get dimensions of walls, windows, outside ornemation etc., and re-creating the original. But man it is a slow process.
Don't know if this info can help you are not.
cheers.
You may want to try to decompile some of the mohaa stock bsp's, then
select whole buildings and put them in a prefab where you can then edit
out what you don't want, such as script_orig, nav points, pathnodes, splinenodes etc., so that they do not conflict with your destination map.
I am doing this very thing at present, using some of the houses from the
m3l3 map. Problem is the two buildlings I choose, are riddled with crap
that must be removed..... tons of duplicate planes, evil nodes etc. I have
spent a lot of time just trying to clean up my map once I imported the prefabs file I had saved the originals to. So if you go this route, do your
best to remove anything other then clean brushes etc..
Also, in the case I mention here, it seems like whoever created those buildings did not make them detailed etc.. Every frigen brush seems to be a world spawn...... So what I am doing is using the original as a templete that I can get dimensions of walls, windows, outside ornemation etc., and re-creating the original. But man it is a slow process.
Don't know if this info can help you are not.
cheers.
grb
like I said.....
It seems like some things just look funny in the de-compiled maps. BUT,
I have been able to select a lot of brushes, seems like everything has been world spawn..........I wonder why people don't create brushes for buildling parts etc., as detailed. At any rate, if I clone lets say a wall of a building, then make it a detail brush, it seems like most of the building parts I have cloned from an original, then re-assembled into a new building and then saved only the new selected stuff into a pre-fab......has
then looked OK once imported into the main map. I got all kinds of duplicate planes, and other goofy stuff a few times I just selected a whole building and tried to save it to a pre-fab.
I wonder if this is all worth ones effort in the long run, as apposed to simply biting the bullet and spending billions of years scratch building realistic looking buildings.
Sorry I cannot offer any immediate "helpful" advice on your statements,
since I know less about all this then you do.
Hang in there.
I have been able to select a lot of brushes, seems like everything has been world spawn..........I wonder why people don't create brushes for buildling parts etc., as detailed. At any rate, if I clone lets say a wall of a building, then make it a detail brush, it seems like most of the building parts I have cloned from an original, then re-assembled into a new building and then saved only the new selected stuff into a pre-fab......has
then looked OK once imported into the main map. I got all kinds of duplicate planes, and other goofy stuff a few times I just selected a whole building and tried to save it to a pre-fab.
I wonder if this is all worth ones effort in the long run, as apposed to simply biting the bullet and spending billions of years scratch building realistic looking buildings.
Sorry I cannot offer any immediate "helpful" advice on your statements,
since I know less about all this then you do.
Hang in there.
grb
-
GI Morpheus
- Corporal
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 1:27 am
I had the same problem with some pre-fabs. I used a railroad caboose car and every friggin piece was a worldspawn class. I fixed it by selecting a single piece and give it a "func_group" with a name. Then I would select a few more pieces and did an "add to entity". I kept doing this until I had all the pieces as a functional group. Man what a pain. The Navaho is right, the level editor needs some real help.
- GI Morpheus
-------------------------
"Most of these people are not ready to be unplugged..."
-------------------------
"Most of these people are not ready to be unplugged..."
Gentlemen,
I had to do exactly what GI Morpheus wrote. Take a brush stroke at a time and convert it from worldspawn to detail, structure, or func_group.
And all those goofy lines, brushes etc., Alcoholic mentioned I also see in
more then one chunk of stock map saved as a prefab.
Once you add the prefab to your map, all the crap gets added, that you
did not notice, thereby polluting your map.
Just as one example, I included one stock building into my map then noticed goofy lines in the sky and buried in areas that you never would notice them, such as an existing building. So in the game, you never see
this stuff. HOWEVER, I DID NOTICE a chunk of triangular grass about
200 units in the air next to a tree which was close to the stock prefab implant!
And while I was compiling my map..............I started to get error messages such as the following:
"leaf portals saw into leaf".............................aaaaaaaahhhhh! Now
when I discovered these chunks of triangular grass while in the game,
I got the coordintates of where they where, NOCLIP, moved right to where they where hanging in the air.....
Then in Radiant, after much trouble pin-pointing them and getting them select..................Whamo....I finally got two red triangles to be shown in the air...................removed them............recompiled and the Compile Error Message went away!
I am being verbose here so that those in a similiar situation can see what to do in order to hopefully extract crap from their maps.
One last thing......in the stock building must mentioned, I also noticed after some time that the designer had included blocks of grass texture
in the building contruction. Now was this deliberate? Or where they quickly slapping stuff together that looks OK in the game but is not quality work. Then we come along and try to make prefabs from there stuff and end up with lots of grieve!
Perhaps one of our local experts would comment on how best to deal with the WORLDSPAWN ISSUE. As mentioned in another topic, If some tiny
piece of brush you forget to assign as detail, structural....blah...blah
ends up being the worldspawn, and then it gets blasted away in your map just as you save it. Then compile. The compile fails, and you lost your map......for when you try to read it into the Editor, it does not show
up. I bet thousands of people have lost endless hours of work because of this. I sense it is a design flaw in the way the people at Radiant created the editor code. One should be able to assigne then LOCK THE BRUSH STROKE so that it cannot be altered or delete that contains the worldspawn classtype, then one would not see new objects as they are crated assigned as world spawn.
Any takers on this issue? Or is it simply unfair to even ask, due to the complexity of the issue, and what would have to be written about it.
sorry for the verbosity, but I am trying to make a point and appeal at the same time, and hopefully share some valid info with other forum members.
[/list]
And all those goofy lines, brushes etc., Alcoholic mentioned I also see in
more then one chunk of stock map saved as a prefab.
Once you add the prefab to your map, all the crap gets added, that you
did not notice, thereby polluting your map.
Just as one example, I included one stock building into my map then noticed goofy lines in the sky and buried in areas that you never would notice them, such as an existing building. So in the game, you never see
this stuff. HOWEVER, I DID NOTICE a chunk of triangular grass about
200 units in the air next to a tree which was close to the stock prefab implant!
And while I was compiling my map..............I started to get error messages such as the following:
"leaf portals saw into leaf".............................aaaaaaaahhhhh! Now
when I discovered these chunks of triangular grass while in the game,
I got the coordintates of where they where, NOCLIP, moved right to where they where hanging in the air.....
Then in Radiant, after much trouble pin-pointing them and getting them select..................Whamo....I finally got two red triangles to be shown in the air...................removed them............recompiled and the Compile Error Message went away!
I am being verbose here so that those in a similiar situation can see what to do in order to hopefully extract crap from their maps.
One last thing......in the stock building must mentioned, I also noticed after some time that the designer had included blocks of grass texture
in the building contruction. Now was this deliberate? Or where they quickly slapping stuff together that looks OK in the game but is not quality work. Then we come along and try to make prefabs from there stuff and end up with lots of grieve!
Perhaps one of our local experts would comment on how best to deal with the WORLDSPAWN ISSUE. As mentioned in another topic, If some tiny
piece of brush you forget to assign as detail, structural....blah...blah
ends up being the worldspawn, and then it gets blasted away in your map just as you save it. Then compile. The compile fails, and you lost your map......for when you try to read it into the Editor, it does not show
up. I bet thousands of people have lost endless hours of work because of this. I sense it is a design flaw in the way the people at Radiant created the editor code. One should be able to assigne then LOCK THE BRUSH STROKE so that it cannot be altered or delete that contains the worldspawn classtype, then one would not see new objects as they are crated assigned as world spawn.
Any takers on this issue? Or is it simply unfair to even ask, due to the complexity of the issue, and what would have to be written about it.
sorry for the verbosity, but I am trying to make a point and appeal at the same time, and hopefully share some valid info with other forum members.
[/list]grb
well when decompiling maps i find that even if i decompile my own made maps the brushes are totally different, its just what happens when you do that. i found that in the original there would be 1 brush, and in the decompile there would be 6 brushes, so i'm thinking they need to work on that decompile engine 
so dont go blaming the map builder for those maps coz its probably not their fault 
so dont go blaming the map builder for those maps coz its probably not their fault trinculo....
I see what you are saying. And shame on me. The problem is with the
decompiler most probably. Yesterday I decompiled a stock blah.bsp, then
while reading it into Radiant Editor tried to follow the results as they printed into under the 2D window. I noticed quite a few "nodes" had to
be generated because they where either missing or something was wrong with them, but the editor was smart enough to at least try to make new
ones and connect things up. Now I can see why I got funny brush strokes etc., in the prefab generated on selected portions of the original.
Exactly what you mentioned seems to happen regulary, that is more then
one brush is generated for an original. So the end result is multiple brushes, duplicate planes etc..
Soooo. I offer my apology to whomever read this thread, in regards to my most likely incorrect characterization of those that designed the game
maps etc..
decompiler most probably. Yesterday I decompiled a stock blah.bsp, then
while reading it into Radiant Editor tried to follow the results as they printed into under the 2D window. I noticed quite a few "nodes" had to
be generated because they where either missing or something was wrong with them, but the editor was smart enough to at least try to make new
ones and connect things up. Now I can see why I got funny brush strokes etc., in the prefab generated on selected portions of the original.
Exactly what you mentioned seems to happen regulary, that is more then
one brush is generated for an original. So the end result is multiple brushes, duplicate planes etc..
Soooo. I offer my apology to whomever read this thread, in regards to my most likely incorrect characterization of those that designed the game
maps etc..
grb
Sonsai....
Thanks for the advice. I had just that thought a day or so ago. Guess I have reframed from using CSG Subtract function because of warnings I have seen in this and other forums for using this function. The few times
I have used it in the MOHRadiant Editor, I have had no problems.
cheers
I have used it in the MOHRadiant Editor, I have had no problems.
cheers
grb
Sonsai...
CSG Subtract is truly great! I have been chopping chunks from buildings
for hours! One building has a view large chunks broken off from a brick side wall and areas of the front, first/second floors, and on the other side of the building, I put in a "round hole", with a little extra tiny blocks removed so that it looks like an artillery shell went through the side of the building and then blew up the stuff on the other side! It looks pretty neat.
I made the hole in the wall, by creating a 9 sided brush, then rotated and extended it so that it looked like a cylinder sticking through the side wall, then of course did the CSB Subtract. Bingo nice hole in the wall!
cheers
for hours! One building has a view large chunks broken off from a brick side wall and areas of the front, first/second floors, and on the other side of the building, I put in a "round hole", with a little extra tiny blocks removed so that it looks like an artillery shell went through the side of the building and then blew up the stuff on the other side! It looks pretty neat.
I made the hole in the wall, by creating a 9 sided brush, then rotated and extended it so that it looked like a cylinder sticking through the side wall, then of course did the CSB Subtract. Bingo nice hole in the wall!
cheers
grb
When you try to decompile maps, stock or custom, the decompiler turns every brush into 6 brushes, so its only really any good for checking dimensions of buildings and other stuff, you cant save a useable prefab straight from the decompiled map. However, say you liked a watch tower, select all the brushes in the tower, go file new map, it will say copy selected, you say YES, in this new map you have your mashed million brush tower, recontruct it brush by brush, say one wooden post was 6 brushes from the decomplied map, delete those and replace it with a new single brush, continue for 10 mins, there you now have your new tower ready to save to prefab.
CSG, from most things I have read its the devil in disguise, I noticed grb was making artillery holes by subtracting 9 sided brushes from a wall. GRB, now how many brushes did that 1 original wall turn into ? I guess about 20-30, which is not an ideal situation.
You would be better advised to start to use the clipper tool, X on your keyboard, practise with that and you will produce convincing destroyed stuff also the E key is really nice to use to distort brushes into odd shapes.
Well thats my thoughts.
CSG, from most things I have read its the devil in disguise, I noticed grb was making artillery holes by subtracting 9 sided brushes from a wall. GRB, now how many brushes did that 1 original wall turn into ? I guess about 20-30, which is not an ideal situation.
You would be better advised to start to use the clipper tool, X on your keyboard, practise with that and you will produce convincing destroyed stuff also the E key is really nice to use to distort brushes into odd shapes.
Well thats my thoughts.
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"If I win this war, you will be slaves forever."
The Spartan ephors sent back a one word reply: "If".
"If I win this war, you will be slaves forever."
The Spartan ephors sent back a one word reply: "If".
[Spec Ops] Jack Ruby]
Sorry I hadn't answered sooner been busy.
The artillery hole I made works fine. I have had no additional brushes created. In fact....... the building I discussed has an outer brick wall, then a inner wall that is made out of one of the plaster textures. The hole is
perfectly round and goes through both walls. And the little extra squarish holes I also cut through which are mostly inside the empty space....
think of the round hole, then a couple bricks also missing from one edge of the round hole....
Light shows through the hole, and if I go into noclip mode in the game and
go up in the air and look carefully at the inside portions of the wall where the hole is.....it has no smimmer, or any other distortion to it. All I see is the clean surface of the outer brick and inner plaster wall within the hole.
So...... that being the case, and all the intricate little chunks I have been cutting out of building parts, outer concrete ledges, parts of window frames......whatever. CGS Subtract has worked perfectly every time!
One thing.................When you make an object, lets say a block that you then bury into the wall .........the block should have a different texture from the wall you want to remove the material from in the shape of the block........ you must make sure.... that the block is more then the thickness of the wall.........so that it extends out on each side for instance.
Then after you to the CGS Subtract...........MAKE SURE that you then hit the BACKSPACE button to DELETE the block! If you do this it just seems like the cgs subtract tool works great! And it is so fast to quickly punch various size/shapes out of buildings using this method.
Hope this somewhat relieves your apprehension [Spec Ops] Jack Ruby]
in using the tool. What I suspect is that people may not delete the tool shape they create that they position in the object that has to get modified, and the result is that in the game, one may see some funny stuff showing up around where they punched the hole out the object (e.g. wall).
At any rate, it has worked fine for me.
cheers
The artillery hole I made works fine. I have had no additional brushes created. In fact....... the building I discussed has an outer brick wall, then a inner wall that is made out of one of the plaster textures. The hole is
perfectly round and goes through both walls. And the little extra squarish holes I also cut through which are mostly inside the empty space....
think of the round hole, then a couple bricks also missing from one edge of the round hole....
Light shows through the hole, and if I go into noclip mode in the game and
go up in the air and look carefully at the inside portions of the wall where the hole is.....it has no smimmer, or any other distortion to it. All I see is the clean surface of the outer brick and inner plaster wall within the hole.
So...... that being the case, and all the intricate little chunks I have been cutting out of building parts, outer concrete ledges, parts of window frames......whatever. CGS Subtract has worked perfectly every time!
One thing.................When you make an object, lets say a block that you then bury into the wall .........the block should have a different texture from the wall you want to remove the material from in the shape of the block........ you must make sure.... that the block is more then the thickness of the wall.........so that it extends out on each side for instance.
Then after you to the CGS Subtract...........MAKE SURE that you then hit the BACKSPACE button to DELETE the block! If you do this it just seems like the cgs subtract tool works great! And it is so fast to quickly punch various size/shapes out of buildings using this method.
Hope this somewhat relieves your apprehension [Spec Ops] Jack Ruby]
in using the tool. What I suspect is that people may not delete the tool shape they create that they position in the object that has to get modified, and the result is that in the game, one may see some funny stuff showing up around where they punched the hole out the object (e.g. wall).
At any rate, it has worked fine for me.
cheers
grb