vis_leafgroup

[Krane]

My map was compiling in 2h30min. I putted 5 vis boxes around some rooms and 1 targeting the others like:

key:target
value:prision_underground westwall_floor1 castle_entrance castle_corridor

with space bar between the targets...It's working (I dunno, wasn't able to test), but there's a arrow from the box to the others so...

Anyway, after 16h of compiling, it's still compiling....There's something obviously wrong here: From 2h30min to 16h just cause I putted some vis brushes and targeted them??????? IS THAT NORMAL?

help

[smartaiguy]

Was there a leak before?

Sometimes put a leaf around a leak then targeting others will "plug" the leak so the vis will take longer.

Also try making all of your small brushes, (ie. steps, debris, etc...) detail. Just leave larget structual brushes alone, the ones that break up your vis.

[Krane]

Last time I compiled took 2h30min and there was no leaks. Everything was perfect. All possible brushes were turn to detail. Then I saved and start the compile. I can't see what's going on, because I typed >bspCK.txt etc to read a log later so....16h45min and going...If I abort, can I rename the bak file and I'll be fine?

Txs.

[Slyk]

Ok, you've got several issues. First off, if you have a sky box leak, NO amount of VIS groups will fix it, it won't compile properly. First question, what are your system specs? Second, are you using 'final/full' VIS compile or 'fast'? FAST is fine! Trust me. Especially if you're using VIS groups. I have 15 MB .bsp files that compile in <30 mins. with 60 or more VIS groups covering 75% of the grid area on a p4 1.7ghz pc.

Now. Without seeing the map, are you covering ALL areas with VIS groups, or just five sections? You need to target every VIS box to all the others that it CANNOT see. So, if you have five boxes, you need to to target 1 to 2, 3, 4, 5 then 2 to 1, 3, 4, 5. IF none of them can see another. There are lots of good tuts around. Try searching the tutorial section here.

I never name mine, just allow the editor to do it for me, saves hassles and works fine on HUGE maps of 60+ VIS groups. I suspect you are not using them 100% correctly or efficiently. But generally, EVERY square inch of your map should be contained inside one. Explain more and I'll try to be more help.

[Krane]

Thanks Slyk.

Again, there's no leak on the sky box. I don't know my syst specs. I'm not using fast vis compile. Everything was fine before I...

This is my first atempt with vis_leafgroups I followed this tut.

I made a box in a low fps part of my map. Turned into vis. Made another box covering a room inside a building. Turne to vis. Target one to the other. Did the same with other 4 boxes. There's only 1 box targeting the other 4 boxes. Sound very simple. And maybe works, how can I know if is still compiling (17h40min until now).

Again: if I abort, my map file will be screwed up? Can I rename the bak and I'm fine?

[General Death]

If you remove the vis boxes does your compile time revert to 2h?

[Krane]

That will be my next step, General Death.

Ok I aborted the compiler. I renamed the bak file to map and open radiant again and saved. I'm compiling again, but now w/o the >log.txt so I can read it.

3117 portalclusters
10228 numportals
9640 numfaces

visdatasize: 1221872

Is that too much?

I'll probably abort again since there is no major change. But I can see now it's compiling like normal....I'll wait a little.

Anyway, there's no reason for such long time compiling just cause I putted 5 vis boxes, right?

[Slyk]

Krane, what you're missing is this:

A VIS group ONLY draws what it IS NOT targeted to. Which means, it sounds like you used two VIS boxes. All you have done is to tell them that they should NOT draw what is inside of eachother. They are STILL drawing everything else NOT inside the other box. That is your problem.

Again, you will have to cover the entire map, floor to ceiling, wall to wall with VIS groups if you want to have them lower your FPS. That is the only way to do a consistant and decent job of it. Otherwise you are not gaining anything. The tut is right for showing how to do small areas, but you need lots of small areas to cover the entire map.

My map, Gun Assault, a large outdoor map used 8 VIS groups, but that was because it was so wide open. FPS are mid-range PCs are 70+. Other more wrecked city maps have dozens and dozens of VIS groups. You also need to think of far_plane distance also. And using the /caulk sky texture can really help benefit FPS and brush 'popping'. Keep at it, you'll learn a lot by practice. But if your compile is over 30 mins, I'd guess you have big issues...bad brushes, etc. If you want, PM me where I can get a look at your .map file and I'll give you better input.

[Krane]

So, I cannot have vis only in a room or in a small part of the map? I have to cover everything?

btw: is my visdatasize too big?

[Krane]

So, I cannot have vis only in a room or in a small part of the map? I have to cover everything?

[tltrude]

1.2Mb fo vis data is not too much. But, if you exceed the max of 2Mb, the compiler will skip the vis compile and radiosity lighting.

Detail should be used on brushes that are inside the walls, ceiling, and floor of a room--leaving the shell structual. You can test it by filtering out detail brushes to see it the shell is intact.

For rooms that have no windows, place brushes with common/area texture inside the door brushes--to seal the opening. The area brush should not be seen and should be thinner than the door brush. Doing that will seal off (hide) the contents of the room (area) from the rest of the map while the doors are closed. But, the shell of the room must be structual. Patch mesh, LOD terrain, window entities, and script_objects (exploder brushes) are not structual. You can test it by filtering out entities, patches, and terrain to see it the shell is intact.

All steps, ramps, and any outside brushes that don't block the players view should be made detail. However, do not make any of the brushes that seal the map from the void, detail.

Doing all that should speed up your vis compile greatly, and improve the FPS of your map.

Hope that helps!

[rOger]

You can have small areas of manual vis. And another thing, compile will not alter anything in you .map file, so there should be no need to use the bak file.

[Krane]

Thanks tltrude I've reduced to 85288. Floors must be detail too? And what about a tower? Mine is circular, 24 brushes makes the walls, should I turn it into detail too?

General Death: I deleted the vis stuff and I'm compiling right now as it was. Looks much faster than with the boxes but I'll wait til further conclusions.

rOger: txs, m8. Makes me feel better in aborting the compile.

Txs Slyk

After my actual compilation, I'll try again to add the vis boxes.....let's see what will happen...

Thanks guys for your explanation!

[Slyk]

Depending on your layout and how neat your brush work, you might get away without VIS groups. I doubt it though. VIS will always make your map faster as you can more easily tell the engine what can and can't be seen and that REALLY increases FPS. Remember, IF this is a multi-player map, you will really want to consider using VIS...that way your machine doesn't have to draw every player, bullet and effect all over the map at the same time! I'm sure you'll get it worked out. Takes time. I still fight with getting VIS right and it takes me dozens of compiles until it is suitable...and that doesn't mean perfect. I cut corners on VIS, using normal blocks instead of sculpting it to fit sometimes, but depending on your map design, you can get away with that. FPS is the primary goal. I suggest trying to keep as near a low of 70 as possible.

[Jack Ruby]

Tltrude fixed the leafgroups on a map that I had already tried to fix up with leafgroups, I would say I had about 20-30. So It exceeded maximum vis. How do you get 60 leafgroups in there without going past maximum visdata ?