The mechanics of map selection

Post by **Bjarne BZR** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 5:54 pm

I am confused.

What does it take for a server admin to select a map for his MOH:AA server?
I recently pbublished Flying sheep's map "The Canal" in an improved objective version, and I am honestly convinced that it os one of the best objective maps ever produced.
And still: After about 2 weeks... it is run by 1 server out of around 2000...

My possible conlusions can only be:
1) I am wrong. The Canal sucks. ( Despite of all great feedback saying otherwise ).
2) I am unpatient. It will take a while for even the best map to propagate in the pool of maps.
3) You must scream from the rooftops, high and for a long time for people to take notice.
4) People just do not like new stuff. They want to run through the corridors of V2 again and again.

What do you think? You all ( more or less ) have done maps and released them... what is your tricks?

ziptie2k2 · Post by **ziptie2k2** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 6:33 pm

Have you tried hitting clan sites and telling them? they could get the word out fast (I would think).

Post by **jv_map** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 7:15 pm

You really need to pimp the map everywhere you can think of... it really helps

. Post it on any moh forum you can find

Even then most servers won't run the map

because players that don't have the map won't be able to join. Even though it should only take a few minutes downloading a custom map often seems too much effort for the average moh player

diego · Post by **diego** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 2:18 am

First off, I love to play custom maps when they are very well done. I've been meaning to check out The Canal, as well as The Opera, but I haven't had time yet. But here are some observations I've made about servers running custom maps and how I feel about them as a player.

From a Player's viewpoint:
1)I always get ticked off when I get booted because that server suddenly changes to a map that I don't have and I didn't know they were running.

2)Sometimes you don't know where to get the map. The site I go to regularly might not be carrying it.

3)Sometimes you don't know if the place you are actually getting the map from has the most up to date version and you have wasted your time. A lot of maps have been released before they are ready.

4)There are so many custom maps out there, how do I know I am not downloading a piece of buggy junk. >>> I've seen a lot of these and it's enough to make you not want to mess with custom maps anymore.

5)I prefer to download the maps ahead of time. I usually don't want to wait for the download to keep playing-- especially if they are running several custom maps.

6)The best servers running custom maps have their own website where you can download all the latest maps they are running. The MenOfGod clan has all their Obj and DM maps on their website for download saving me the hassle of tracking them down 1 at a time at various map depots.

From a Server's standpoint:'
1)If your clients don't have the map for any of the reasons above, you will end up kicking a lot of players. Those that are left, will be bored and leave. Your server is now empty because of a custom map.

2)If the map is not as bug-free as you thought, it could crash the server. >>I've seen this a few times, too. But not as much.

3)They may just want to keep their server totally stock. I may be wrong, but I think some of those anti-cheat things like pandora don't work with custom maps in your main folder.

4)If a server is having problems convincing people to dowload their custom maps for all of the above reasons and more, they will just pull them so they can keep the server more active.... My own clan did this with the one custom map they were running. But that's ok, the map was fun, but it wasn't pretty.

I'll take a look at your map when I get a chance. And if your not blowing smoke up my arse, I'll ask our admin if he will host it on our server.

Oh, uh, didn't you clean up the DM version as well? Our server is DM.

omniscient · Post by **omniscient** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 3:28 am

there are many servers that host custom maps only for free so the public test them out. try to find one of those. look at ALL the clans u can possibly find and ask them to put it on theyre website. i wouldnt recommened posting at map forums because if ur like me, i spend more time making the game then playing it (if ya know waht i mean)

mohaa_rox · Post by **mohaa_rox** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 9:45 am

ppl dont play custom maps cause they suck...and they're lazy...

Post by **Bjarne BZR** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 11:44 am

mohaa_rox wrote:ppl dont play custom maps cause they suck...and they're lazy...

Eh... does people suck, or does the maps suck? We can make better maps, but improving people may be a bit harder...

Post by **Bjarne BZR** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 12:04 pm

Diego wrote:Oh, uh, didn't you clean up the DM version as well? Our server is DM.

The DM, OBJ and LIB versions are all based on the spanking new updated map

Back on topic: I guess I have had a defect mind in regardes to how maps propagate in the MOH:AA commynity... I thought that people were actually on the lookout for better maps. But instead it seems that people stay with what they know.

And what they know is: obj/stlo and obj/renan... ( Check A.S.E. and sot by map... the evidence is striking... obj/stlo: 48 servers, obj/renan 69 servers... third is obj/dasboot with 8 servers ).
This is such over the top numbers that it must mean someting, so lets draw some conclusions:

1) They are small.
2) They were released early in the MOH:AA mapping history.
3) They are immediate action maps.
4) They are simple and easy to learn.

My conclusion to this ( and this is just me, I may be wrong here ) is that people are.

1) Lazy.
2) Not willing to try new things.
3) Like what they know.
4) Play objective as just a variant of Roundbased TDM.

// Got to go, continue later ( please comment my conclusuions so far ).

Shifty · Post by **Shifty** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 1:14 pm

I play in the Clan Planet http://www.clanplanet.co.uk Mohaa Obj Realism League for my clan the 6th-DLI and clan planet supports custom maps, of course they have to approve them you could try submitting it there (especially cos i'd love to play Canal in a match)

ziptie2k2 · Post by **ziptie2k2** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 1:30 pm

I dont know how they can stand playing the same thing over and over.......
In my LAN group, we cant seem to get enough new maps to play. We constantly change em up. Otherwise certain players get too good and some suffer from boredom. Definately the lazy part comes into effect, when it comes to problems with the map crashing or other things go wrong. Instead of fixing the problems, they simply "run the same route", to avoid the problems. I was talking to myself the other day (which I do often), and was wondering if it is possible to insert all the custom parts of maps that the mappers use into the original pk3's to avoid problems with having the user pk3's in your main folder. I dont game online much, but when I do I can understand why they go with the tried and true method, since when you connect to a server to shoot poeple, its nice to do this with no problems.

Yay, I was thinking out loud for once, Progress!!!

Post by **Bjarne BZR** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 2:09 pm

OK, back again...

From the latest comment I can conclude one more thing:

5) The flora of xeetorz has given rise to the common use of anti-cheat programs. These (mostly) rely on removing/blocking unknown pk3:s. This creates a problem for any home made maps.

( and no ziptie2k2, inserting custom content into the original pk3's to avoid problems with having the user pk3's in your main folder does not help as it changes the signature of the files. And if you COULD do it: xeetors would just put their aimbots in there )

mohaa_rox · Post by **mohaa_rox** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 2:25 pm

Bjarne BZR wrote:
mohaa_rox wrote:ppl dont play custom maps cause they suck...and they're lazy...
Eh... does people suck, or does the maps suck? We can make better maps, but improving people may be a bit harder...

the maps dont suck, in fact, they're excellent. ppl are just lazy to dl great maps and play them, so there're few servers...

tltrude · Post by **tltrude** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 2:29 pm

I think most clans love small maps that can be learned quickly. They gain an advantage over "outsiders" with thier map rotation--because they practice only with those maps. They may only try new maps once a week/month.

Post by **Bjarne BZR** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 4:16 pm

As for complex maps; At first I was confused out of my mind from the design of the stock V2 map... today it is practically the only stock map running regularly on our servers.

And yes: I regularly hear the lamest excuses not to bother downloading a map.

So I guess you have to write a lot of emails to make people see a new map then... I hate pushing stuff in peoples faces, but if they don't know what is best for them I guess I'll have to tell them then...

diego · Post by **diego** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:36 pm

I finally got a chance to check out the DM version of your map. I haven't looked at the Opera yet, but I have to agree with you that this is the most beautiful custom map I've seen.

You must have had quite a job setting up the new Vis. Even with your changes, my FPS will dip down into the 20's when using high quality textures. But at Medium quality I have a solid 50-90, depending on where I'm at.

The only real problem I have with the map is the level of darkness in the shadows. Since it's a daytime map, I find it a bit extreme. Areas of darkness are a great mood enhancer in single player, but I don't know anyone that does NOT alter their brightness in a deathmatch to give them an advantage.
However, these shadows are so black, that I have to crank up my brightness level to about 75% across the dial just to see where I am going when I'm in them. Unfortunately, this is overkill for the sunlight leaving the map very washed out. How bright are the ambient light settings?

Of course, lighting aestetics are always subjective. Some people may like having those deep shadows to hide in. But if they are playing with me, I'll see them anyway since I don't like to run into walls because I can't see where I'm going. It may seem a simple thing to alter your brightness settings during this map. But this one is quite a bit darker from any of the stock maps.

And don't you just hate burning a new music CD only to have 1 song that is much lower in volume than all the rest?