The Future of this site

Post by **Surgeon** » Sat Dec 28, 2002 3:25 pm

OK, theres a few things that have been bothering me for a while and I'm going to get them off my chest.

I'm very concerned about the state of the MoH community.

As you may or may not know some of us have had inside information on the forthcoming SDK and what it includes:

SDK Won't include:
Model Importer for max.
Source to max exporter.
Source to game code or DLL's.

SDK Will include:
Model Exporter for max
Tutorials on mapping, vis etc

SDK Might include:
New MohRadiant (that supports Spearhead models).
New q3map
New mohLight.

Whilst this hasn't been 100% confirmed, if true it will scupper every single one of the proposed Total Conversions hat are left for MoH.

In case you havn't heard;

Band of Brothers, probably the most promising TC for MoH, have decided that enough is enough and are leaving the MoH scene for UT2003.

This is a huge blow for the community and the thing is I cannot blame Gh0st (leader of the TC team) for his decision. To be honest, I thought they would have abandoned ship a long time ago. That makes BoB the 4th or 5th decent TC to move to another game because of EA's total lack of support for a very good game.

So why bring this up ??

Well, I started this site (this site started as MoHaaMapping, which progressed to MoH Design, and has arrived at .map) I started it to help people map for MoHAA. I did this because I thought the game had a long and prosperous future. This site has taken nearly 9 months of my life to get to where it is.

Over the past few months there have been many times that I have thought about jacking it all in, but the people I know have always talked me round from doing it.

I suppose what I'm feeling now is just complete and utter frustration. This community has soo much to give. People such as JV_map, Scorpio Midget, Dog Meat and others put so much into this community, and have pushed it in the right direction, further than many thought possible.

But then I look at other communities - the UT2003 community which had a proper set of tools as soon as the game was release and has had 2 patches. The Doom 3 community which you just know (because its being made by Id) that it will be properly supported and have a fantastic ingame engine and wonder what I'm doing this for.

At the moment I just don't know what to do............

Innkeeper · Post by **Innkeeper** » Sat Dec 28, 2002 4:21 pm

I started mapping because of this game. I do find it depressing how most of the multi-player games are operated though. I joined a "rifle only" game and decided on the sniper rifle. I tooled around for a while and found a good spot for sniping and watched for the enemy to make a fatal move. Then I got a message that camping was not allowed. I made my apologies that I didn't know that snipers were not allowed and then exited the game.

My favorite level is ?Snipers Last Stand?. You can?t ?run and gun? and hope to survive. The AI is bad in that level and it takes some work to keep the stupid Rangers from getting themselves killed. Mind you I don?t mind ?run and gun? from time to time, but it isn?t very realistic. This is why I don?t play UT2003, Doom, HL and others that much.

No offense to anyone, but most of the players are young and have no idea of military tactics. Object and tug of war games lend themselves to using tactics, yet it?s hard to find a group that has that understanding. My son has recommended BF1942, but I currently have a performance challenged PC, and it wont run for me. Even so, he is frustrated by the same problems I face. He has joined sever clans just to find out that the ?General? is 16 years old and has not the first clue about tactics.

As for the upcoming sdk, I?m excited to hear that there will be an exporter for Max. I have used MilkShape as a stopgap measure. Scorpio?s exporter needs some work! It creates a ?MilkShape? folder (BAD

), does not let you specify where you want the models to be saved, and does not save the models as static. I do appreciate the work that has gone into creating MilkShape and the exporters; it just has a long way to go.

I for one appreciate all the work that you have put into this site and would hate to see it go. I volunteer my help in what ever way I can and you see fit.

General Death · Post by **General Death** » Sat Dec 28, 2002 5:13 pm

I totally understand where you?re coming from. The reports/information that the few of us have got bout the SDK, or should probably be better referred to as a patch for the mohr, are fact. Our inside sources have confirmed I would say in the 80% to 90% range that we can expect just getting an updated mohr not a SDK.

Here is the part where I will try to sway you back to mohaa as others have done in the past...lol. Yes the future of Mohaa modding looks no more promising than what we currently have now other than the fact that the new features that have been discovered by the few that you mentioned might simply be easier to incorporate into our maps without a lot of bothersome/unnecessary script. Other then that I don?t think we will see any major improvements.

Yes other games/companies are making unbelievable ground in the modding community do to simply providing the proper tools for modders....not buy supporting the modding tools which is the #1 reason why map makers of the Spearhead maps told us we would get nothing more than a mohr patch. EA has lost focus that support of the tools is not necessary....that?s why we have sites like this one and many others.

What do these other games offer though as a whole? Yes the modding capabilities are only limited by the mind behind the mod but from my seat I have to look at the game as a whole. Will the mod give increased life to the present game or will it give increased life to the present game that needs it in order to simply stay a float. See, that?s where for me Mohaa has made large strides. The game has me coming back for more just as it did when released over a year ago. I have played the others which the exception of doom 3 for obvious reasons since its not out but even with a doom 3 having a new engine past versions have not seemed to have the staying power of mohaa...imho.

So what does the future hold for mohaa? Well we do have rumors/reports, whatever you want to call them bout mohaa2 roughly scheduled to be released spring/summer of next year and thankfully from what we hear 2015 will be back on the team. Now the deciding factor for me to say with mohaa will be EA's attitude towards releasing unsupported real modding tools. If the community could strongly get that point thought to EA that the tools don?t have to be supported then we could get somewhere. After all we were shocked how much they listened on the few improvements that where made with Spearhead.

So for me I am waiting to see if EA can make the right choice and supply us with the tools we need by or at the same time they release mohaa2. Who knows they could use a new engine also.....sorry dreaming. I have never released anything due to makeshift tools that cannot produce what I have in mind and the engine not being able to support them also but the fact that the game seems to have a aspect that I can excatly put a finger on that keeps me coming back for more is the reason I enjoy being a part of the modding community.

Well that?s just my 2 cents worth, I would like to really hear from others involved also on how they feel.

Post by **Surgeon** » Sat Dec 28, 2002 5:25 pm

If MoH wasn't such a good game I wouldn't still be here. Its just got to the point of me repeatedly questioning if its all worth it.....and at a time where the site is becoming more and more popular, and has more than a few regulars.....

What ever happens the site won't close - I, and others, have put far too much into it for me to just close it down..... I find myself with several options:

(1) Keep going as we are
(2) Abandon updates to the site and just leave it as is
(3) Appoint someone else to run it for a while - giving me a breather and time to actually think about my first love - which is mapping

The site still needs some work - in that I would like to overhaul all of the tutorials - updating / correcting them where neccessary, also providing example maps with each one - where neccessary....

zubidoo · Post by **zubidoo** » Sat Dec 28, 2002 5:44 pm

I find it to be a real shame that all the really quality games out there, moh:aa...bf1942..., are being produced by EA who we all KNOW will not help make it better. Personally I feel that both games would be AMAZING if the right changes were made to them, but of course EA wouldn't dare listen to the community and/or spend resources to create a good patch.

Anyway that's my thoughts.

Coublacka · Post by **Coublacka** » Sat Dec 28, 2002 7:43 pm

Ya it is a shame how EA doesnt really care about asking the gamers how to make the game better, and changing things, but the ppl here at this site are doing it for them. All you with your great maps and jv's MoH Bots. This is the best MoH site out there.

Teck · Post by **Teck** » Sat Dec 28, 2002 9:26 pm

Wow, I remember when they first said they were going to release an SDK months ago... and it never happened now they're shorting the gamers. EA really has some poor support for their games. Surge, maybe it w ould be possible to make .map UT2k3, Doom 3, MOH, and Battlefield modifcations and mapping? I mean it is the best mapping site for Medal of Honor, possibly expand it to make it one of the best for the other games as well. I noticed too that the gameplay in Medal of Honor is really odd for me, it's weird joining a server and playing for 20 minutes already on top of the list beating out people that have been in there for 40 mins :\ It's almost like the people you're fighting don't know what they're doing... sad really sad... I simply loved this game when it came out I even ran Medal of Honor 101 a site for tweaking and general know-how of the game, but I guess things never change with big companies that don't take the gamers to heart with what they need to keep a community going. :\ bastards.

Post by **Surgeon** » Sat Dec 28, 2002 9:32 pm

Surge, maybe it w ould be possible to make .map UT2k3, Doom 3, MOH, and Battlefield modifcations and mapping?

When I first started this site the idea was that it grew to cover some other similar games, Doom 3 is probably a definate as is Quake 4 - I'm not a big fan of UT2003, but maybe for U2.... i dunoo depends how much interest there is and how much help I can count on

Teck · Post by **Teck** » Sat Dec 28, 2002 9:41 pm

I'll help ya advertise it

Also, has anyone petitioned to EA? Possibly get both the MOH and the Battlefield communities to form one petition see if we can get a response out of them.

General Death · Post by **General Death** » Sat Dec 28, 2002 9:46 pm

has anyone petitioned to EA

It has been done in the past. They dont even listen to there own dev team which has been on sites like TMT and have told us that they asked to produce the tools but EA shot down there request.

If they wont listen to there own team will they listen to the modding community....doubt it

The main problem is that the dev team said EA wont release a SDK because they, for some odd reason, believe they have to support it. If they only understood what this site and others like it do....support modding.

Teck · Post by **Teck** » Sat Dec 28, 2002 9:50 pm

Ah I see, well here goes nothing

I'll write up the petition in a few minutes and I'll post it here before I got to create it. If anyone has anything they want to add to it, I'll throw that in with it.

Post by **Surgeon** » Sat Dec 28, 2002 9:55 pm

Tech, honestly m8, its really not worth it - EA (the big publishing one) are not going to listen to the community on this. As Death says - they won't even listen to the dev team......

Teck · Post by **Teck** » Sat Dec 28, 2002 10:07 pm

Yeah probably, but I guess it's better to try than to not try at all.

Teck · Post by **Teck** » Sat Dec 28, 2002 10:30 pm

We as the community for Medal of Honor: Allied Assault/Spearhead are petitioning to you today in the eve of news brought to the community?s attention. The release of a Software Development Kit (SDK) has been rumored since the release of Allied Assault. Electronic Arts has continuously delayed the release of the SDK, and with the recent news; have decided to make it more like an updated Medal of Honor Radiant, rather than an official SDK. (This came from a good source)

We would like to inform Electronic Arts that they would NOT have to support the SDK that is what our community?s modification sites are here to do. I am sure that with the release of the SDK the total conversion modifications that have since left the Medal of Honor community for games that currently have a SDK, could return and add a new depth to the game. The SDK would allow this gaming community to prosper for a great deal of time, and continue to be one of the best there is. However without it, the game is losing its MOD community, with sites such as .map and others possibly going to move on to new games and leave the Medal of Honor sections dormant. This would cause a great blow to the game?s community as a whole, losing the support of its modification community. This could also cause for a decrease in sales on your part, and a lack of players from our standpoint. As you know with all of your marketing and demographics, that another player?s word about a new game, can sway their views on it in either direction; a gamers says to another gamers that a game is good, or amazing; that gamer is more likely to buy it. On the other hand if a gamer is to say to a fellow gamer; the game is trash because the company that released it won?t help the community in any way; there is a loss on your part.

In short, all that we ask is you release a Software Development Kit, that is not lacking any of the features, and allow for the modification portion of this community to support it. This means you don?t have to carry the support for it, and you don?t have to spend money.

Whether Electronic Arts accepts this petition or not is up to them. However we did try and I commend everyone that signs this petition for that.

Thank you.

Sound good? Anything that should be added or removed?

General Death · Post by **General Death** » Sat Dec 28, 2002 11:34 pm

Tech I admire your drive to do this and I hope EA gets the idea but in reality be prepared that it will probably go unanswered......not trying to kill your drive but I just don?t want to see your hopes get up.

With that said I think its one of the best petitions I have seen...haven?t read but about maybe three or four but they consisted of: "EA...we are mad...give us tools..." lol.

Next you need to think of where to post this petition. I would recommend along with .map...aa.com, mohadmin.com, pmoh, TMT, mohaa.com. Those seem to be the headliners in mohaa modding. At least I know the dev team looks at TMT and mohadmin.com and prob pmoh.

Piece of advice that when you post your petition on these sites that you make known that you expect no response but this is a last ditch effort or you might get flamed big time...lol. Basically let them know that...yes this is another petition and...yes I know that this has been done before and failed but this is a last ditch effort since we are bout 80-90% sure that there will be no "SDK".

Good Luck