Nicholas Berg

hogleg · Post by **hogleg** » Sat May 15, 2004 12:05 am

M&M, I just don't know where to start on a statement like that.
You must be very young so never-mind.

lizardkid · Post by **lizardkid** » Sat May 15, 2004 1:23 am

dude, Hogleg, he's right...

we ousted Suddam for doing the same sort of crap we're doing now, this is just for fun! Saddam did some baaaaad $h!t i know, worse than this, but try this...

you're arrested for shoplifting, a few months in prison. the guards toture you, humiliate you by, well, you know what they're doing, and all this. and worse yet, they are SOLDEIRS!! trained to defend their country and not rape you!

hey M&M, yer Egyptian right?

hogleg · Post by **hogleg** » Sat May 15, 2004 2:14 am

Okay, let me start by saying what those soldier?s did was wrong. This was happening to a small handful of prisoner's and was initially ordered by the phyc-dept for physiological strategies.
These people have all grown up with torture being part of every day life so if were going to interrogate them we will have to use different tactics other than torture. This is just plain wrong as well! But that is military thinking. There's nothing more humiliating to them than to be publicly disrobed,"naked". The guards took it too the next level and the commander should be held 100% accountable. We,? American?s" should be on our knee's apologizing to Iraq for our action's.

As far as the retaliation, There is no comparison, if those evil individual's would have all raped the victim and sent him home in a year he would still have a life and as time went by he would go on with life just like those prisoner's will.

I think there is a lot of evil spirit's out there and war bring out that spirit and makes people callous, "hard" to mistreating. Kind of a snowball effect.

America has no business being over there. The Iraqi people have thousands of years of history and we seriously think we can go over there and "save" these people and create a democracy? Yeah, Right, if you buy that I have a bridge for sale! Black gold, Texas tea is what its about and controlling those damn raggie's, that's not me that's what echoes in George's mind everyday.

Rape and murder are both wrong and evil but this retaliation thing is what has kept the Middle East in war for centuries. And now were feeding the fire and man oh man is it going to be a fire!

M&M · Post by **M&M** » Sat May 15, 2004 3:04 pm

hey M&M, yer Egyptian right?

yeah,so?

M&M, I just don't know where to start on a statement like that.
You must be very young so never-mind.

is that another way to say no-comment ?

i don think im wrong because this is how alot of ppl ive seen feel.

These people have all grown up with torture being part of every day life

that doesnt make it ok to apply the same methods to them ,right?

As far as the retaliation, There is no comparison, if those evil individual's would have all raped the victim and sent him home in a year he would still have a life and as time went by he would go on with life just like those prisoner's will.

well,i consider both killing or rape as horribly wrong .but since its a war ,its considered killing is pretty much expected .but rape is unethical no matter what !!!! to them ,nicholas was the "enemy" .so killing him was a natural excpected action !! (although i think it was also wrong)

and those actions werent the only reason !!! some human rights group (cant remember the name) said that the us soldiers seem to be alittle more trigger happy than uk soldiers. and there are alot of civilian deaths that arent needed .
alot of iraqis have died in the past few months when the us or uk soldiers werent directly in threat of thier lives !!
even small kids are killed ,there was a story about a small girl who was killed in a town .usually its said that uk soldiers come with sweets when they visit small towns ,so normally kids wold rush to them to get some .but this time they opened fire !!!
how could a small girl be confused for a renegade fighter (or "terrorist") .
the family didnt even get a sorry letter ,just a letter saying that she might have been killed when uk soldiers were firing "warning" shots trying to disperse a mob (which wasnt there,shouldnt also warning shots be targeted at the sky?)

ziptie2k2 · Post by **ziptie2k2** » Sat May 15, 2004 3:39 pm

alot of iraqis have died in the past few months when the us or uk soldiers werent directly in threat of thier lives !!

How can a soldier possibly know they are not threatened? You never know what a person approaching you is going to do, or what their agenda is. I am not justifying the shooting of inocent Iraqi's by any means, but in a situation like that, you have to consider everyone approaching you as a threat. Suicide bombers exploit this, which is why it is effective. Besides we only see what our governments want us to see!!! (propaganda) so unless we are actually standing next to the poeple involved, than we will never know the truth. And I'm sure there are exceptions to all that I have said.

kai0ty · Post by **kai0ty** » Sat May 15, 2004 6:11 pm

HogLeg wrote:Rape and murder are both wrong and evil but this retaliation thing is what has kept the Middle East in war for centuries. And now were feeding the fire and man oh man is it going to be a fire!

who said rape? where did that come from? were talkin about berg........

and wtf do ppl say the war is about oil. i mean we shudnt have gone to war but seriously now, what in any operation have we done to in any way secure ourselfs more oil? anyway, we dont even need it. its been all over the news that we got oil, the ppl are just jacking up the price and making us htink we dont have enough. ITS NOT ABOUT OIL, i think its a bout avenging his father because he coulodnt do it right.

hogleg · Post by **hogleg** » Sat May 15, 2004 8:26 pm

who said rape? where did that come from? were talkin about berg........

LOL....What do u think this whole conversation is about? Comparing raping prisoner's to the murder of Berg!!!!!!!!!!!

kai0ty · Post by **kai0ty** » Sat May 15, 2004 8:29 pm

actually its about the video they made of killing berg, hence the first post....

Its sad sad news. How could anyone do that to a fellow human being! For those of you confused, Nicholas Berg was an American who went to Iraq looking for work in re-building it. He was captured by a group of Iraqi terrorists and beheaded on tape. The tape was sent to America for us to watch. It is VERY gruesome, but i feel its important to watch so we can fully understand this tradegy. He had a family in Penn, (wife and a daughter i think, not sure) Anyway you can watch the viedo here, but it is very graphic, and kinda long.

link removed

i dont see rape anywhere there.

lizardkid · Post by **lizardkid** » Sat May 15, 2004 8:36 pm

M&M wrote:
hey M&M, yer Egyptian right?
yeah,so?

i wondered if you were near Iraq, just thought maybe you coulda given us a ground-level 'report' if you will.
i kno, not likely. but since i personally live in America i have no idea what kind of hate and evil is going on at Iraq (i'm halfway around the world).
i know, papers and tv are good methods of communications, but i meant i have no feel for it, like being there is much more convincing than seeing it through Dan Rather's report.

war pushes extremes. it's inevitable. but that doesn't mean you can cause people to be tortured like that. the best war can do is force people to do stuff. look at what Hitler did. he 'punished' all the Jews for being a Jew. so what? religion doesn't matter, it's just an idea or thought, it's also whoever has it's right to have it!
Iraqui prisoners ought to have the right to stay properly treated in a jail, they're being punished enough as it is.

M&M · Post by **M&M** » Mon May 17, 2004 10:21 pm

kaioty wrote:actually its about the video they made of killing berg, hence the first post....
Its sad sad news. How could anyone do that to a fellow human being! For those of you confused, Nicholas Berg was an American who went to Iraq looking for work in re-building it. He was captured by a group of Iraqi terrorists and beheaded on tape. The tape was sent to America for us to watch. It is VERY gruesome, but i feel its important to watch so we can fully understand this tradegy. He had a family in Penn, (wife and a daughter i think, not sure) Anyway you can watch the viedo here, but it is very graphic, and kinda long.

link removed
i dont see rape anywhere there.

Hogleg wrote:As far as the retaliation, There is no comparison, if those evil individual's would have all raped the victim and sent him home in a year he would still have a life and as time went by he would go on with life just like those prisoner's will.

are u sure that u did read the whole thread?

How can a soldier possibly know they are not threatened? You never know what a person approaching you is going to do, or what their agenda is. I am not justifying the shooting of inocent Iraqi's by any means, but in a situation like that, you have to consider everyone approaching you as a threat. Suicide bombers exploit this, which is why it is effective

well,i agree with some of that .but there are times when its very obvious like peaceful demonstrations (yes there is some) and other examples .
also,when shelling some towns with artillary or missiles !! alot of those pinpoint laser locked missiles seem to miss thier target quite often .

i wondered if you were near Iraq, just thought maybe you coulda given us a ground-level 'report' if you will.
[/qoute]
well,i cant give u a ground level report from iraw .but i can tell u how the mood is here ,and i asure u ALOT of ppl are upset about what happened ,and what is still happening ( killing ) .
there is a big nmber of ppl who were opposed to the war in the 1st place ,and what happened has just reinforced thier position .

i was one of the pro-war arabs because i sensed that iraq will be a much better country ,but its becoming harder and harder to see that come to reality

lizardkid · Post by **lizardkid** » Mon May 17, 2004 10:32 pm

USA's intentions weren't clear from the start. we broke away from the U.N., a stupid move, and started a war with no clear reason. like Vietnam. i think it was for oil and to kick Saddam, who was Bush's daddy's big foe,and to prove USA was still the big bad bahuka.

anyway, thnx M&M, i know you're not able to tell us about iraq itself, but you're a heck of a lot closer to it than we are....

M&M · Post by **M&M** » Mon May 17, 2004 10:36 pm

well,i wont be surprised if the mood in iraq is quite similar if not far more worse than here .
i would also presume that the mood here is similar to most of the arab countries (even kuwait)

blue60007 · Post by **blue60007** » Mon May 17, 2004 10:39 pm

M&M wrote:well,i wont be surprised if the mood in iraq is quite similar if not far more worse than here .
i would also presume that the mood here is similar to most of the arab countries (even kuwait)

I wouldn't doubt it...

ziptie2k2 · Post by **ziptie2k2** » Tue May 18, 2004 11:21 am

well,i wont be surprised if the mood in iraq is quite similar if not far more worse than here .
i would also presume that the mood here is similar to most of the arab countries (even kuwait)

Yes, unfortunately I would understand why. It's really too bad to, cause a very large majority of the country (USA) has no anomosity towards arabs and there respective countries. And I dont believe our government started out with any, but as we like to stick our nose in everyones business, it has grown into some. The whole problem is there is a belief that if the world was "westernized" it would be a better place, but we are talking about totally different cultures here, and forcing someone to see things your way only makes them angrier. I sympothize with your feelings on this and others in your country M & M, I would probably be feeling the same way from your perspective. Unfortunately we got smacked in the face on 9-11, and the poeple responsible cant be brought to justice as they were killed during the attack (some of them). And in defense of our stance we have to do something or it will keep happening. However it is too bad we have to make poeple suffer in the process. It would be convenient if we could isolate the a-holes involved and whoop the snot out of them without bothering anyone else.

Jack Ruby · Post by **Jack Ruby** » Tue May 18, 2004 12:56 pm

Seems some strong opinions have come to the surface.

I saw the video, sickening as it is I thought and still think people should watch it to know the true nature and barbarity of the enemy.

Nick shouldnt have been there, poor guy.

However it wasnt Iraqi's that killed him, it was Abu Musab Al Zarqawi and his cohorts.

This guy isnt Al Qaeda either, though he is an associate of Bin Laden. He happened to be fighting in Afghanistan at the same time as Bin Laden and they became aquainted there.

Zarqawi set up his own training camps in Afghanistan, Bin Laden had his own elsewhere. Zarqawi is an expert in chemical and biological weapons, he taught these skills at his camps.

I think this guy is a far greater danger than bin laden, he is much more active in the Jihad.

Although it looks like chaos in Iraq it actually isnt. The bombings and killings are all to achieve one aim, to cause instability in Iraq and fan the flames of civil war.

Nick was used as a pawn to try to stop future contracters going to rebuild the country.

I suggest you read this letter from Zarqawi to Bin Laden that was intercepted a couple of months back:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/libra ... arqawi.htm

Will take an hour to read but it will open your eyes whats going on in Iraq.

I think we will win the peace eventually, we cant afford to pull out and let the terrorists run riot.

Just my opinion