Nicholas Berg

Jack Ruby · Post by **Jack Ruby** » Sat May 22, 2004 10:59 am

Indeed the abuse that has taken place is bad.

I assumed there were probably reasons why they were treated in this way. Well turns out I was correct at least in part.

Heres a couple statements from the soldiers that have been arrested for the abuse:

Oct. 24, the MPs decided to punish three detainees suspected of raping a teenage boy at the prison, the newspaper said.

"They started to handcuff the two rapists together in odd positions/ways," England is quoted as saying in the documents.

"The third guy was brought over and handcuffed between the other two. Then they were laying on the floor handcuffed together, so all the other prisoners could see them."

Now I think we have seen this pic, if they actually raped a boy then I would say they deserved their humiliation and should maybe have had their nuts cut off.

Heres where it leaves a bitter taste in your mouth:

A detainee was also forced to stand on a box of food, with wires connected to his figures, toes and penis.

Harman is quoted as admitting she attached the wires to the prisoner, nicknamed "Gilligan," and told him he would be electrocuted if he fell off the box.

"Why did you do this to the detainee 'Gilligan'?" a military investigator asked in the documents.

"Just playing with him," Harman said

So some of the abuse can maybe be justified, like messing with rapists.

However making someone think they are about to be electrocuted for no other reason than "Playing" with him is quite disgusting.

Ace of Spades · Post by **Ace of Spades** » Sat May 22, 2004 6:10 pm

Where did you find this stuff Jack? Wow. That's bad stuff.

M&M · Post by **M&M** » Mon May 24, 2004 11:03 am

Now I think we have seen this pic, if they actually raped a boy then I would say they deserved their humiliation and should maybe have had their nuts cut off.

well,some ppl will just say anything to look innocent .
last week (monday) a heli fired at a wedding .in that part of the region its customary to fire gunshots into the air at weddings. like firing greeting shots when some important official arrives ,or mourning shots when some soldier dies .
the heli flying by at that momet confused this for an attack and killed alot of ppl .this same scenario happened in afganistan a couple of years ago .and in both situations the us goverment said that the choppers were at that location but they fired at terrorists who were in that region .if so ,how come some of the dead are children and women !!!??

alot of situations like this have happened and the soldiers or guys in charge usually lie .thats what destroyed the US credibility (spelling?) in the region

Ace wrote:I still am not sure if I would call it rape.

well,what exactly do u want ?a porn movie of prisoners being raped so u can call it rape?

this is even more horrific than rape (not the movie ,i mean what has been done)

*Round of applause for the apology, good man*

cheers ,u saved this thread from being locked

kai0ty · Post by **kai0ty** » Mon May 24, 2004 5:13 pm

whats the longest post on this board, cuz i think this is getting there.
anyway im not sure if i would call waht they did to the prisoners rape either. actually in health class some weird lady came in and said rape is anything insterted into the anus, vagina, or mouth without consent of the otehr person. now i dunno what exactly they did to the prisoners, but if that didnt occur i wouldnt call it rape. probably just public humiliation, assault, and molestation, all of which definitely shouldnt have happened. on a different note, do u think bush will re-instatee the draft if re-elected? i do, hes a crazy texas maniac and cant admit he made a mistake.

ziptie2k2 · Post by **ziptie2k2** » Mon May 24, 2004 5:18 pm

Im not trying to start a conflict between us M&M, but you seem to only be seeing everything from one side (which is understandable).

in that part of the region its customary to fire gunshots into the air at weddings.

If I was getting married and it is customary to fire shots in the air at a wedding, I think I would either tell the US government or not fire at all while there are HELICOPTER GUNSHIPS flying around, I mean comon you expect me to feel bad for that? Are you telling me if you were flying this heli, that you would say "oh they must be having a wedding" or would you shoot at them? I believe that there are bad things our soldiers are doing to Iraqi's dont get me wrong there. But I have an OPEN mind to reports on TV cause I know that EVERY side is lieing from time to time. NOT JUST THE AMERICANS.

kai0ty · Post by **kai0ty** » Mon May 24, 2004 5:21 pm

hmmm, every side is lying......
well i dunno about that..... how can u say that anyone is lying when u dont have proof otherwise? also wehn ur in a helicopter dont u think u could tell when there is on woman in a white gown, and all the men in black tuxedos, and everyone dressed up nice, and pretty music, and flowers and stuff, that u would assume they arent firing at you? i mean if u see some guys take one shot in unison and put they're guns down, why would u BOMB THEM?!

lizardkid · Post by **lizardkid** » Mon May 24, 2004 5:22 pm

ziptie2k2 wrote:If I was getting married and it is customary to fire shots in the air at a wedding, I think I would not fire at all while there are HELICOPTER GUNSHIPS flying around

too right!

kai0ty · Post by **kai0ty** » Mon May 24, 2004 5:23 pm

well but shouldnt the americans realise that they werent being fired at? who is dumb enough to fire a gun at a helicopter wide open anyway? and even if they were, why in the name of god (alah in this case) would they do it at a wedding!?

ziptie2k2 · Post by **ziptie2k2** » Mon May 24, 2004 5:25 pm

A white gown? is that customary there? Do you expect me to believe that if you were trying to bring down a blackhawk with the firepower these militants have that you would stand outside and just fire at it? How better to disguise yourself as a "frienly". This is the easiest way to attack america right now. If this was a wedding and no shots were fired in the air or IF they could tell it was a wedding than DAMN them for sure. And I didnt say they were lieing, I simply said that both sides lie from time to time. Read slower and understand what I mean.

ziptie2k2 · Post by **ziptie2k2** » Mon May 24, 2004 5:31 pm

I guess what I am trying to say is that the American government tells people what they want us to think (know) wether it is true or not. And I know all sides in a situation do the same thing. That's why I read or listen to news with an open mind rather than taking what is reported as 100
% true. Everyone has there own version of a story, am I right?

And again I am not trying to make anyone mad, this is just the way I look at it.

kai0ty · Post by **kai0ty** » Mon May 24, 2004 5:41 pm

well sure u can do that zippie, but what news are u lsitening too? what country do you live in? if u understand arabic, and watch both us and iraq news then more power to ya, but most of us watch american news, and if u do that u cant listen to both sides even if u wanted to. and despite popular belief the news doesnt make false reports. if they say something happened, it happened. now they may only put certain things on, but teh governemt doest tell people what to believe.
also u say aobut the firepower of the militants. if they have all that fire power why would they take a helicopter down with assault rifles? im just guessing they dont take out a bazooka and fire it in the air at a wedding, i never got married in iraq, i dont know.
also what was the point of saying both sides lie from time to time? everyone lies of course, but in this situation i dont think america of the iraqi government has lied.

ziptie2k2 · Post by **ziptie2k2** » Mon May 24, 2004 5:48 pm

I live in America and you can get the arab news from there respective websites, not TV. And no I dont understand arabic. (wish I did)

Well Im not saying either side specifically is lieing, but the American government is saying they were not having a wedding and the Iraqi's are saying it was. Someone isnt telling the truth! And also the news is not all truth, sorry to be the barrer of bad news (no pun intended). The news reports what information they get from sources. If I am a source and I tell them a lie than they report incorrect information. Believe me, I am not trying to say that the americans are completely innocent here. I am just stating that you cant take what you here for 100% truth.

kai0ty · Post by **kai0ty** » Mon May 24, 2004 5:59 pm

those websites are in english???
ofcourse there is a way that the news could be wrong, but when the chance is probable, they do state that. and even if the iraqis were having a wedding, and the americans say "no way" its more likely they are ignorant, and not lying.

ziptie2k2 · Post by **ziptie2k2** » Mon May 24, 2004 6:48 pm

Ok, nevermind. I'm wrong.

lizardkid · Post by **lizardkid** » Mon May 24, 2004 6:49 pm

you both are missing a critical element here.

the news tells only half the story, our half, we cry and bla bla bla about our deaths, and sidenote the Iraqi casualties as a kill count to boast about later. American news is extremely biased. they won't tell the whole story unless it says what they want. we're all that way soemtimes, and we need to check their side too and read between those very fine lines.
also, websites have more power than tv, they can change what they say, even a single word, in an instant. one moment you may have been reading
"Iraqi insurgents killed 8 American soldiers today in the worst attack since xxdatexx"
and you refresh, and it turns into
"Al-zarawi surgeons killed 18 American soldiers today in the worst massacre since xxdatexx"
i mean it's kinda a stretch but still, learn to read some other sources.