Nicholas Berg
Moderator: Moderators
news isnt bias, its selective which can cuse people to think a certain way. u just have to listen to what is actually going on. we here on the news "3 americans killed today wah wah wah" but were in a war, 3 a day is dam better than any other war we've been in. thats another thing i was wondering, is it really a war? i heard it wasnt somewhere and bush just sai d"War on Terror" for support. is there any truth to this?
I read about that assumed wedding.
I cant decide which way to side, but I would say the coalition have a slight edge over the iraqi version of the story.
Its a fact that the house was on a known infiltration route from Syria. This could just be an unlucky fact for the houseowners or it could be a clue to something more devious.
They had solid intelligence that said there were insurgents in the complex.
I read they had word from about 3 different sources that something was going down.
Now I am pretty certain that the place must have been scoped out by people on the ground before being targetted by the helicopter.
I would assume if it was my custom to shoot in the air at a wedding, I woulda noted that I happened to be celebrating in a warzone. While I am listening to my friends say their vows to eachother, in the background I can hear the thud of an Apache's rotors. So I jump up and shoot my AK in the air for joy ???
Now I understand some women and children died, this is a terrible thing in any circumstances. However it has been known to happen that miltants, insurgents whatever you want to call them, they have used women and children as human shields before. This might not be the case here but its worth considering.
The venue of the wedding ? In the middle of the desert, near the Syrian border, 80kms from the nearest other village. Seems like a strange place to go hold your wedding eh ? Give your mum and dad map references to find it would you ?
Something like 28 of the dead were men of Fighting age. Now if it was a wedding this would be totally explainable, a young guy getting married, his friends brothers, cousins or you already know the alternative.
It was reported a bunch of cash, passports, satellite phones and other stuff was found after the strike.
This does not mean anything either way, though for some poor dudes living 80km's from anywhwere I wonder where they go to pay the satellite phone bill and where they get the money to pay for it, here in the UK even a mobile phone can empty your pocket rapidly, no idea how much a satellite phone would cost.
So I dont know either way, doubt we ever will, but its interesting keeping up with the news huh
I cant decide which way to side, but I would say the coalition have a slight edge over the iraqi version of the story.
Its a fact that the house was on a known infiltration route from Syria. This could just be an unlucky fact for the houseowners or it could be a clue to something more devious.
They had solid intelligence that said there were insurgents in the complex.
I read they had word from about 3 different sources that something was going down.
Now I am pretty certain that the place must have been scoped out by people on the ground before being targetted by the helicopter.
I would assume if it was my custom to shoot in the air at a wedding, I woulda noted that I happened to be celebrating in a warzone. While I am listening to my friends say their vows to eachother, in the background I can hear the thud of an Apache's rotors. So I jump up and shoot my AK in the air for joy ???
Now I understand some women and children died, this is a terrible thing in any circumstances. However it has been known to happen that miltants, insurgents whatever you want to call them, they have used women and children as human shields before. This might not be the case here but its worth considering.
The venue of the wedding ? In the middle of the desert, near the Syrian border, 80kms from the nearest other village. Seems like a strange place to go hold your wedding eh ? Give your mum and dad map references to find it would you ?
Something like 28 of the dead were men of Fighting age. Now if it was a wedding this would be totally explainable, a young guy getting married, his friends brothers, cousins or you already know the alternative.
It was reported a bunch of cash, passports, satellite phones and other stuff was found after the strike.
This does not mean anything either way, though for some poor dudes living 80km's from anywhwere I wonder where they go to pay the satellite phone bill and where they get the money to pay for it, here in the UK even a mobile phone can empty your pocket rapidly, no idea how much a satellite phone would cost.
So I dont know either way, doubt we ever will, but its interesting keeping up with the news huh
Last edited by Jack Ruby on Mon May 24, 2004 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Philip II of Macedon sent a message to Sparta:
"If I win this war, you will be slaves forever."
The Spartan ephors sent back a one word reply: "If".
"If I win this war, you will be slaves forever."
The Spartan ephors sent back a one word reply: "If".
well jack u got urself a point there. yes it definitely was a stupid idea to fire with a helicopter around, and it does seem strange that the americans wouldnt be able to recognize a wedding for a militant underground meeting thing. i too am siding with the US on who i believe, because its just to strange that it would be a wedding.
well personally i think this dam war is going to drag on, the insurgents making quick strikes, shooting civilians and torturing them, all this crap.kai0ty wrote:but were in a war, 3 a day is dam better than any other war we've been in. thats another thing i was wondering, is it really a war? i heard it wasnt somewhere and bush just sai d"War on Terror" for support. is there any truth to this?
i think my favortie war is WWII, call me crazy but it's a he!! of a lot more straightforeward, and a bit less searing heat.
doubt this is a war. dunno though.
Moderator
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Abyssus pro sapientia
Olympus pro Ignarus
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AND STUFF™ © 2006
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Abyssus pro sapientia
Olympus pro Ignarus
۞
AND STUFF™ © 2006
Using Women and children for shields is common everyday practice for Iraqi's.[Spec Ops] Jack Ruby wrote:
Now I understand some women and children died, this is a terrible thing in any circumstances. However it has been known to happen that miltants, insurgents whatever you want to call them, they have used women and children as human shields before. This might not be the case here but its worth considering.
Hey Jack did you read this:
/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7907
IMHO, This war was inevidable.
"all the governments in the world are corrupt and in the hands of the Illuminati"
Well, I think we did it backwards. With Bin Laden we waited until he attacked us, which is probably the right way, but he is not a leader of
a country which makes it alot harder to fight him. But with Sadaam we definately should have waited for him to attack someone (anyone). I believe we had no reason to go in there and get him other than he is a VERY bad person.
At least if we waited even if it costed lives in the process it would have been a much better reason and probably could have got a crapload more support.
a country which makes it alot harder to fight him. But with Sadaam we definately should have waited for him to attack someone (anyone). I believe we had no reason to go in there and get him other than he is a VERY bad person.
At least if we waited even if it costed lives in the process it would have been a much better reason and probably could have got a crapload more support.I once was lost, but now........... I'm still lost!
Just found an update about the wedding, not much but interesting:
US Iraqi administration spokesman Senor reported discovery at purported Iraqi wedding scene near Syrian border of Sudanese passports, Syrian currency, satphones with Taliban and al Qaeda numbers in Afghanistan, in addition to ammunition, weapons, false ID kits. Earlier, US Brig. Kimmit said of video run by Arabic TV stations: We know the enemy?s ability to manipulate media, but stand by foreign fighters safe house claim.
US Iraqi administration spokesman Senor reported discovery at purported Iraqi wedding scene near Syrian border of Sudanese passports, Syrian currency, satphones with Taliban and al Qaeda numbers in Afghanistan, in addition to ammunition, weapons, false ID kits. Earlier, US Brig. Kimmit said of video run by Arabic TV stations: We know the enemy?s ability to manipulate media, but stand by foreign fighters safe house claim.
Philip II of Macedon sent a message to Sparta:
"If I win this war, you will be slaves forever."
The Spartan ephors sent back a one word reply: "If".
"If I win this war, you will be slaves forever."
The Spartan ephors sent back a one word reply: "If".
damn,i feel another long post coming
well,i guess my post would be the longest !! the problem is there is too much of u guys and there is too few of me to reply .so when replying i have to reply to alot of ppl in one post !!!whats the longest post on this board, cuz i think this is getting the
well,i dont see anything that could start a conficlt so far .and im not the kind that gets into a confilct quicklyIm not trying to start a conflict between us M&M, but you seem to only be seeing everything from one side (which is understandable).
i do have an open mind about what is happening ,otherwise i wouldnt have been pro war !!
despite the terrible things going on ,the us is doing a great thing for iraq .it might accidental but still they should get the credit for it .however the price for that is just too much !!!
well,i agree with all of ur post ,but come on.what are the odds of a heli flying at that certain location at night !!! besides ,would they have fired if they did hear the heli ? .lets look at it from another angle ,if they fired randomly at the air ,what are the odds that those bullets could hit the heli ?? also ,usually weddings are accompanied by alot of lights and music and stuff .if they were able to here the gunshots ,couldnt they here the music ?in that part of the region its customary to fire gunshots into the air at weddings.
If I was getting married and it is customary to fire shots in the air at a wedding, I think I would either tell the US government or not fire at all while there are HELICOPTER GUNSHIPS flying around, I mean comon you expect me to feel bad for that? Are you telling me if you were flying this heli, that you would say "oh they must be having a wedding" or would you shoot at them? I believe that there are bad things our soldiers are doing to Iraqi's dont get me wrong there. But I have an OPEN mind to reports on TV cause I know that EVERY side is lieing from time to time. NOT JUST THE AMERICANS.
EXACTLY !!!!hmmm, every side is lying......
well i dunno about that..... how can u say that anyone is lying when u dont have proof otherwise? also wehn ur in a helicopter dont u think u could tell when there is on woman in a white gown, and all the men in black tuxedos, and everyone dressed up nice, and pretty music, and flowers and stuff, that u would assume they arent firing at you? i mean if u see some guys take one shot in unison and put they're guns down, why would u BOMB THEM?!
if like u were wanting to say ,those were a "terrorist group" .then why are most of the dead children and women !!?? if u have seen the report u would understand how it was impossible to be a "terrorist group"
also,the same thing happened in afganistan a couple of years ago .exactly the same thing
well,its customary here (in egypt) .but i dont know if it is the same there ,i only know about firing into the air becuase i saw that when i was in kuwait .but i do remember seeing other wedding gowns than white .its not a must afterallA white gown? is that customary there?
well,i never watch news from the SOURCE cause its bound to contain a big number of lies ,wether its iraqi or us .well sure u can do that zippie, but what news are u lsitening too? what country do you live in? if u understand arabic, and watch both us and iraq news then more power to ya, but most of us watch american news
yeah,y didnt they do that if the intention was to hit the heli (if the bullits even hit the heli)also u say aobut the firepower of the militants. if they have all that fire power why would they take a helicopter down with assault rifles?
and no its not customary to fire rpgs in weddings !!!
the us does this in funerals and some other situations!!(firing shots)
if they were ignorant they should say we dont know for sure .but to say NO when u dont know is considered lying (cool ,that rhymesits more likely they are ignorant, and not lying.
)no its biased .i say this because i see true facts then watch the news .both iraqi and us news is biased ,it is selective yes .but its selecting the type of news that is best for thier side .before the fall of bagdad the iraqi side was really hilarious .they used to tell VERY OBVIOUS lies .but then again ,the us was lying also .maybe not as obvious ,but u cant say it didntnews isnt bias, its selective which can cuse people to think a certain way
ok ,so if u are right .maybe something was going on .or maybe some of the guests were insurgents .does this satisfy blowing every1 at that party to kill them?They had solid intelligence that said there were insurgents in the complex.
I read they had word from about 3 different sources that something was going down.
Now I am pretty certain that the place must have been scoped out by people on the ground before being targetted by the helicopter.
well,usually weddings have ALOT of ppl invited .so 28 fighting age guys wouldnt be wierd .Something like 28 of the dead were men of Fighting age. Now if it was a wedding this would be totally explainable, a young guy getting married, his friends brothers, cousins or you already know the alternative.
It was reported a bunch of cash, passports, satellite phones and other stuff was found after the strike.
also ,how was it reported that cash ,passports and sat phones where found thier? come on,us heli's shoot someplace and us soldiers go to the twon that has been fired at to check the damage? isnt this suicide?
yeah,ur right .ur absolutly right .the wedding should have moved 80 kms to the nearest town or even more to bagdad or some safe place so they can hold a wedding !!!those invited should also have accompanied them into the march for the wedding .infact ,the whole town should have relocated for safety reasons !!!The venue of the wedding ? In the middle of the desert, near the Syrian border, 80kms from the nearest other village. Seems like a strange place to go hold your wedding eh ? Give your mum and dad map references to find it would you ?
nope,ur not crazy .ww2 was imo the greatest war that happened ,although it wasnt that straight forward .but look at how much technology we picked up (as human race) in those few years !!!! alot of ppl died ,but those living learned that cooperating is much better than fighting .i think my favortie war is WWII, call me crazy but it's a he!! of a lot more straightforeward, and a bit less searing heat.
At least if we waited even if it costed lives in the process it would have been a much better reason and probably could have got a crapload more support.
well,imo i think if u waited more the guy would have died of natural reasons .he was already so old !!! he has president of iraq for so long ,3 egyptian presidents have came and he is still there .now ,changing presidents is not a very fast thing in egypt due to the corrupt "democratic" (if it even qualifies) regime that is in control
also,if the us did wait .the UN would have prolly agreed (1st).then u would have seen much more countries jumping to the aid .both the us goverment and uk goverment decieved the populaces as to how the war was neccessary ,doesnt that say something about them?
no WMD's were found ,no labs were found .no hard evidence was found !!!
so the excuse about saying that an iraqi attack (from iraqs side) was immenent was just a lame excuse .iraq didnt and couldnt have had the potential and power to strike at something so far .
even during the war ,iraq would laucnh "blind" missiles at kuwait and most of them ended up in the desert
Last edited by M&M on Tue May 25, 2004 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[cough] loser! [cough]Mj wrote:I read about 7-8 books a week (roughly 500 pages each) and thats on a school week....
lol im just messin with ya.
M&M that post doesnt take long to read....... and u do have 56k
anyway, im not sure what it is we're dicussing anymore, so ill start something new, back on topic. did anyone besides myself actually SEE the video with they're own eyes, start to finish???
well,something is wrong with u i guess .but i am not into much reading .infact ,i hate reading which is the primary cause of hating studying .which is also the primary cause of me being here instead of studing while my exams are so damn close and i didnt even start REAL studies
ur future is very bright man ,i wonder what will u do when u grow up
ur future is very bright man ,i wonder what will u do when u grow up