Crop circles

[hogleg]

This History channel show sparked my interest again in the subject. Guess you remember the crop circle mania, there were alot of phonies but it seems that some have been scientificly examined and found the stems on the smashed plants had been microwaved!
But I had never seen this one before.


I know ! Hoax

[At0miC]

Yeah, I read about this one, it was in the same field and same day (in Chilbolton) were they found a picture in the grain about an answer to the question that scientists years ago sended to space, with the Arecibo telescope 1974.

graincircles inChilbolton:


This is what we sended to space years ago:


This was what they found in the grain:


This one looks better:

[tltrude]

Isn't it strange that the visitors from outerspace would place their crop art right next of a facility where a bunch of bored eegheads work!

[At0miC]

yes it is, also because there was an other Crop circle, the year before in the same field.



the next year, when they found the "answer art" they saw that the first art was a telescope,

In the picture on the right you will see an M (under) with a 'roof' that must propose an telescope that we are using. Int the left picture (founded in the grain) you will see it's changed, so "they" will use 'that' thing as a telescope, and it looks familiar as the crop cicle they found the year before:


Those 'eegheads' were very bored then

(anyway, if 'they' really exists, why aren't they sending stuff by radio-waves? if they can receive our signals, then they could also sending signals then. and why would they use Crop circles? they are just stupid signs for us, we don't know what they mean. well, the only thing for using Crop circles would be that it's way faster then by radio....)

[Splaetos]

(anyway, if 'they' really exists, why aren't they sending stuff by radio-waves? if they can receive our signals, then they could also sending signals then. and why would they use Crop circles? they are just stupid signs for us, we don't know what they mean. well, the only thing for using Crop circles would be that it's way faster then by radio....)

how is a crop circle faster then radio? Dont understand that statement~

unless you mean if they like hop through a worm hole here and make a crop circle, as opposed to sending radio waves(or light communications really) from thier home planet?

In which case it would still be faster to travel and then communicate rather then leaving some obscure circle. Some scientists claim the fact that we've never recieved any random radio waves from spaces is proof of the non existence of alien life. Of course others point out that weve only been listening for a handfull of years, and the universe is a palce of such scale we cant even comprehend it. But since weve never met one, and by our science we conclude that travel faster then the speed of light is impossible - I wouldnt hold my breath.


Anyway, if they were real, their reasoning might escape us, since obviously they have either developed or plundered far superior technology. The only purpose they serve that makes sense to our way of thinking was voiced by m. night -Navigation(but only during the day lol). High altitude atmosphere navigation cant be easy when your from another planet. (However, they would likely have other means of pinpointing a particular place, and the signs on the ground would be a bit silly, especialy if planning an invasion.)

So to summarize!

ummm... they are all fake!(probably - I say probably cause I wish they werent =>)
And really, wouldnt aliens have something better to do? Or are we operating on the 'Douglass Adams' universe where rich alien kids have galactic vessels at thier disposal to come and abduct our rednecks for no reason, and anal probe them?

[At0miC]

Yes, it was just, if some Crop circles are really made by something from outherspace, why would they do that? they would only do that if that type of communication would be faster.

Anyway, you said:

But since weve never met one, and by our science we conclude that travel faster then the speed of light is impossible

Well, srry, but it is possible to travel at the speed of light, even faster!
There is no resistance so you won't get a MAX speed, only problem is:
If you want to go faster, you need energy, when you take off the engine, you will go with that speed forever, of you want faster again, you need energy.
You need many and many energy to get the light speed. now a days we can not make that energy, but 'if' there is more intelligent life in space, and they can make the energy for it, thay can travel with light speed, or faster.
You are half right, we can't travel with light speed, because we don't have the energy for it, but if you got the energy, it would be possible m8.

[Jack Ruby]

I like that Douglas Adams idea, anal probing of rednecks seems liek a reasonable thing for bored ET's to do

I dont go for the crop circles at all, seems a huge waste of time for et's when there are much more obvious ways they could get our attention.

If you really want to help look for the lil guys then you can download the SETI screensaver here: http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/

Its a worthwhile thing to do except there is a cancer research screensaver out there somewhere ( try googling for it ) which seems a much better use of your computer.

Back to listening for et signals, there was one signal that seemed artificial but when they scanned that part of the sky again they couldnt find it, it has been called the "WOW signal" as the guy sitting by the printer couldnt believe what he was seeing and wrote WOW in the margin of the printout.

I do believe they are out there also I believe that they must have visited us. The universe has been around for so long and its so huge that it seems arrogant to think we are the only ones here. The distances involved are truly astronomical but with the progress of technology the problems of interstellar travel may not be insurmountable, assuming we dont blow ourselves up in the meantime

It may also be the case that there is a ceiling to knowledge. I mean we may get to the point one day where we know everything and then we realise that its impossible to travel such huge distances, that would be sad but at least it would make us take more care of the Earth, the way things are going it might not be habitable forever ( and yeah I know the sun is going to go to red giant in another 5 billion years but it seems a huge stretch of imagination to think that our species could ever be around for that length of time).

edit : just read atomics lightspeed theory, well the energy your talking about to get there seems impossible as when you are getting close to lightspeed your mass increases, and at the speed of light you and your vehicle would have infinite mass, theres no known power source that could push infinite mass around.

The only realistic way I can see for us to explore the universe is with Von Neumann machines. Its basicly a probe we send out, when it reaches another solar system it used raw materials there to build a replica of itself then that replica flies onto the next system and builds a replica of itself and so on and so on. I read somewhere that we could have a probe around every star within about 100,000 years if we used this method.

[Splaetos]

umm yea.. the definitive theory that our species agrees on is the einsteinian theory of relativity. The closer you get to C(the speed of light) the heavier you get, therefore more and more energy is required at each fraction, for less actual gain. however, that is not to say we cannot approach the speed of light, once we have more powerful sources of energy(which we will). Traveling at 99.9% of C is realisticaly pretty similar to traveling at 99.9999 of C. The difference is that the energy required is exponentialy higher. However, by the science we humans accept as truth, nothing can travel faster then light.

,9C +2/3 mass
.99C x7 mass
.9999C x70 mass
.999999 x700 mass!

that is ALOT more weight to push with each fractional increasin speed, and you can never pass the max of 300,000 kps according to einsteinian physics. BUT, when you are traveling at such speeds, you also encounter Time Dilation. <---- this is where RELATIVITY comes from.

Journey to nearest star~~~ 4.3 light years
.9C - earth time: 4y, 9m - local time: 25m

y=years m=months
earth-time = real time for those not traveling
local time = time experienced by people moving at that speed.

70 light year distance~~~
.9999C earth time = 70 years(approximate) local time: 1 year


Andromeda galaxy --- 2 million light years
.9999999999C earth time: umm 2million years! local time: 30 years
~~~~~this speed requires energy so high its almost as difficult to imagein as the distance between stars.


Hey, I'm hoping for wormholes or hyperspace, but until something that doesnt involve standard space flight comes about, or our science is proven wrong, you cant expect massive intergalactic travel(BEYOND our solar system). There are large consequences even if you can produce the energy to approach the speed of light(ie theres no going home again - not physcaly perhaps but socialy and emotionaly)

Einstein is an ass! But he is the authority we live by, and he tells us that massive space travel from star to star is purely the domain of science fiction. That is... until if and when, something unaccounted for happens.


edit---------- oh and as for power sources. Like i said .99999999999C and such is beyond our comprehension pretty much in the sheer amount of energy propellign a spacecraft such distances at such a speed would require. However, lower fractions of C are definately possible, and actualy quite probable using power sources like Anti-matter. Yes remember your science clases! Anti-matter is real, not star trek! HOWEVER, antimatter is not readily available... It CAN be created however, but we do not currently have suffiecent energy to do so on any scale worth a damn. So... its one of those things... you need to spend energy to reap the reward of MUCH MORE energy. The point is - we know that there are massive sources of energies out there to be harnessed, and its a fair bet that Sometime in our species's future(provided we live long enough - which does mean getting off this planet) we will harness much more powerfull energies.

[hogleg]

The scientist I saw said that only some of the just plain circles not the art work had signs of microwave burns on the plants. Those are the ones that intrest me.

If it's not UFO's it's probably small twisters bouncing around? Which still doesn't explain the burn marks. And when I say UFO's, I don't nessecarily mean from another planet! Just unidentified.

[At0miC]

Okay you guy's convinced me about the travel in space, I've readed somewere on the internet that travel above the light speed was possible if you had the energy for it, but that would be just a bored guy who said this.



Anyway about your microwave burns, that's really odd, ppl will find them all the time at some crop circles. Once a witness found a bird house near a crop circle, the roof was made of metal, on the metal they found weird burnspots, also witnesses found burn spots on other objects like sheds near crop circles.

Ever heard about light Orbs? Witnesses will see them around the hole world at places were crop circles were created. Coincidence?
I've read that witnesses said that those light orbs are making the circles.
I've also readed several times that when the witnes(ses) were going to a circle (when they saw light orbs), the area and the ground was hot.
Also readed that a scientist discovered that there must be a quick heat change of 1500 degrees celcius on the ground inside the circle, founded in ground tests.

There was a scientist who collected some grain from inside a circle, and some grain form outside a circle. He gaved a mouse some of both of the grain, the mouse eated the grain from outside the circle, but never touched the grain that was founded inside the grain. This reminds the scientists from something that happened in england, there was made a big circle in a grain field, the farmer used the grain to make bread, the bread tasted really awfull.
So the taste of the grain has changed.

Grain or grass inside some circles where not broken, normally when you will walk over grain, the stems will break at weak points, the grain is just made flat. They also found allot braided grain stems with really strange formations.
Witnesses saw near circles in grass some kind of tracks, just like if there has been a bike with both the wheels in 1 track, but, the ground, and even the grass was not touched, witnesses say that light orbs were making those tracks.

Weird sounds at crop circles, scientists and amateurs recorded sounds they hearded at new crop circles. All those sounds that was recorded are very familiar of each other.
sound examples: http://home.hetnet.nl/~cropcircle/sound.htm

Many withnesses hearded knocking sounds before a circle was created too, microwaves?

In Japan they found out that water in crop circles where changed, the frequention in the water was different then normal, also some qualities has been changed.

Anyway, why are ppl finding all those stuff all over the world, all those stuff are very familiar from each other, a very important one are the light orbs and the burnspots, also the magnetism of the grain that has been changed, people will find it all the time.

I'm not a strong believer, but all those stuff are very interested for me, because, you will see the same strange appearances at many crop circles all the time. and yes, as hogleg already said, how to declare the microwave (tracks) they found all the time.?

[Jack Ruby]

The microwave thing is quite interesting, I am just wondering how you would check that something had been microwaved.

If it so then maybe the HAARP atmospheric heater in Alaska is the culprit.

[Splaetos]

On all things not fact based, I remain a hopefull skeptic. =)

If indeed there are beings out ther ecapable of traveling the galaxy on a grand scale, there is no reason to believe that they wouldnt know things we dont. After all, but a hundred or so years ago, we didnt have 'horseless carriages' and travel through flight was but a hopefull dream.

[hogleg]

Here's some info on the microwaves.
http://www.thewatcherfiles.com/crop-circles.htm

[Jack Ruby]

Thats interesting stuff Hog, though I dont think the guy has done enough research to say outright all circles are caused by masers, as some are known to be frauds.

he also says this "By the way, if indeed Aliens have been around for thousands of years, how come that only since a few years cropcircles have been reported ?"

Now in Olde England they have been around for a looong time, way before masers, heres a newspaper clipping from 1678:


heres the text in the clipping:
"Being a True Relation of a Farmer, who Bargaining with a Poor Mower, about the Cutting down Three Half Acres of Oats: upon the Mower's asking too much, the Farmer swore That the Devil should Mow it rather than He. And so it fell out, that very Night, the Crop of Oat shew'd as if it had been all of a flame: but next Morning appear'd so neatly mow'd by the Devil or some Infernal Spirit, that no Mortal Man was able to do the like. Also, How the said Oats ly now in the Field, and the Owner has not Power to fetch them away"

I like the point in the clipping about during the night the Oats looked liek they were aflame. Could this be similar to the reports of lights at the scene of the more recent circles ??

I also highly doubt the military let people doodle on fields with their most secret weapon.

Some of the circles for sure are odd there can be no doubting that, the case of the devils mowing seems really strange, must have scared the olde folk big time.

The military are messing around with some seriously impressive lasers though, note the guy sitting under this one, its a big frickin laser, its called the MIRACL Laser ( mid infra red chemical laser) theres lots of info to be found about it on google:


EDIT:

Your ex president Reagan (rip) I think believed the aliens were real, I read about his speeches before but this page summarises the main points:
http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc1523.htm

EDIT2:

The Space shuttle may have filmed some et's, I saw this clip a while back, looks like they are being shot at from the Earth and then take evasive action, very cool stuff, if you want to know more the mission was called STS-48:

quicktime: http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc1075.htm

mpeg: http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc1074.htm

[hogleg]

Sounds like to me that Ronnie & Nancy saw one first hand.

That's probably why he was pushing that Star Wars program so hard.