.Map :: MoHAA Mapping

Yeah ok,

No one is argueing here, it's a discassion board right??

If your happy with the way you're SP map works then enjoy. Each to their own.

Anyway, I think I know why the SP games stop working. It has to do with the version of the tik file included in your pak3.
I did download Wombats version of the tik file, the Cardgame example, and it works great. The man understands how a script works.
What he did was to silence out "//" the animation specific to maps starting with "test or utils" and make it available to all maps and also paste in the cardgame animation that was not included in that section.
Your version of the file, and I got a version of that from another post too, apart from having a spelling mistake, copies all the animations back on themselves within the same script section. Thus u have the animation loading twice and I belive that is causing the SP game to go crazy. I replaced your version in your pak3 with Wombats and your map works fine as do the single player missions. And there is no need to delete or change the original one either.

Anyway, none of this is solving my problems.

Cheers
Mirek

for pointing that out I wonder where I got the tik versions mixed up, must have been recently and accidently replaced wombat which it was meant to be with this other one from god knows where in my 10 gig of MOH stuff LOL, thanks it would have taken me ages to get round to checking that as a possibility. I couldn't work out why everything had worked for ages in both SP and MP then all gone haywire in SP.
Must have mixed up the tik when packaging the pk3.
I too didn't mean to sound like I was argueing , I just don't quite understand what your problem is? Why doesn't the tik help you exactly? If you are doing a SP map alone then all you need to do surely is call the right animations in the script, if its a MP SP type thing then why doesn't the tik help?
Its as much for myself so I can understand as probing you, as we learn by experience.
I am purely trying to help other as best I can the way many here and at TMT etc have helped me, its by helping each other that we can get past the lack of support by EA.
If i phrased my msg aggressively it was unintentional, perhaps...perhaps it was the distraction of my 2 sons visiting 12 and 9 the phone ringing like crazy and the usual run of weird radiant happenings.
Anyway I will leave you and hope someone else will speak up who can help you good luck and don't forget to tell us all when its ready

Oh PS re the sound issue, have you tried the Womabts Ubersound fix, its the combination that got it all working, dogs barking and attacking etc though I am not sure the latest version is quite as effect as the 1.3 version.

I am off to download wombats tik version again so I have the right one for sure.

Everything is cool mate


Here are some reflections on my MOHAA problems:

Firstly - I agree with jv_map, that all u need for a single player game to work is to use the prefix 'test' as in "test_mapname".


My dilema -

Through having a good look at the human.tik and ubersound files I now think I understand that my problem lies in the uberdialog.src.
I am making an SP map with friendly animation as in scripted stuff similar to the original game animations. I can make them climb walls, open gates, aim and shoot etc etc. The only thing I am having problems with are the dialogs and thus dialog animation and the numerous voice sounds that come with the game. It seems that the aliasses for ' test' map name have not been included in the uberdialog.src.
Wombats human.tik solution does solve the animation issue for DM and OBJ maps and makes it possible to have anymap name for SP. However moving away from the "test_mapname" format takes me into the uberfix territory where I did not have to go before.
So my personal dilema is - do I go down the uberfix path just so my friendlies can wave arms when they talk to each other or live without eye candy in my maps and leave all as is, use the 'test_mapname' where everything (bar some dialog) required to run the game works without a need for a single change?

These are things I ponder on late at night.

Cheers,
Mirek

I think I see where you are going......

If you distribute a SP you made your concern is will the animations that are 'eye candy' work on other people systems if they don't use the 'fixes' themselves, in other words you wan to be sure your map is self-contained and requiring zero fiddling by the user.... is it something like that?

A reasonable request, if only EA had been a little quicker and farsighted huh.

And yes I used Test-name for my SP maps and it was fine up to a point, the confusion came in my mind because so far you are the only person I have come across on these forums wanting to solely do a SP map everyone else has been trying to push further down MP/bots and MP only maps....sorry my confusion I got so used to everything being about MP maps DOH!

Firstly its my and many of the people I have met playing or thru forums experience that fixing the ubersound is at somepoint a necessity, certainly for those using MP maps.
The naming of pk3 is a concern here too for the order of them affects the way particularly sounds are loaded or not. This is why the uberfix produces a pk3 called z.pk3 so that its the first read.
Most modders and mappers have started instituting a system for pk3 naming that helps both this and general pk3 usage.

User_skin_name.pk3 or user-skin.pk3 depending on your preference for hyphen or underscript LOL!

User_map,User_fx,User_hud....
I rename the uberfix pk3 too to User_zzzz.pk3 to ensure its the last alphabetically.

This was another reason people were more enthusiastic about the Wombat.Tik, it allows us to continue this convention.....as long as we don't get our tiks mixed..LOL

So User_Map_SP_name.

Personally I have maybe 50 or map paks of one kind or another and the ability to clarify their origin and use was a good idea....not all injstalled at once I may add..hehehe

Back to the ubersound, again check this but I think if you produce the ubersound.scr using Uberfix and use that 'in' your pk3 it should overcome that part of the problem, if you want all the sounds available...if you want the 'eyecandy' too ermmmmm.... I assume it applies to the uberdialogue too, though wombat only mentions the ubersound, mind you I think it creates ALL the aliases for ALL sounds so yeah it should be ok, got some wicked dialogue from my bots I never heard before, some of the voices made me crack up laughing hhehehe Oh god I got distraced now where was I.....derrrrr I'm lost now LOL

Or again as you know my forte is not scripting but mapping but can't you thread the animations you require in your script by using the relevant map MOH map name

eg from an original script:


level.grillo say dfr_m1l3_add01
// "Powell, get ready, we're coming up on the outskirts of the airfield now."
or
level.grillo say dfr_m1l3_add15
// "Machine gun nest!"


can you use that to get around if you need a specific piece of dialogue without animation.

It you want the animation do you 'call' it by using

exec global/ambient.scr m4l1

and if you want an animation from a different map can you use exec global again with in a script? eg.

exec global/ambient.scr m1l2a

Jez I tought i knew all this when I looked into it 2 months ago, its getting to 40 fewer brain cells...can't remember.....what was i talking about?
Ah the cricket, bloody good game! eh!
Now where are my socks? Oh yes on the cat! Oh its a dog! now wear ARE my glasses? I can't find them without my glasses on ...oh what a dilema!

oppppppppps........trip/////! arggggggggg! OUCH! BANG!

Was ist Loss!?



Pardon me it is late and I think I should go to bed now! Brain ...dead ..must.... sleep....'But marge I got up yesterday!'

Lets beat 27 posts and have the largest post in the script section LOL..... go go go

Mirek,

I really don't understand why you're still having problems. Radiant ships with a test map (test_firefight) and everything works fine there. Friendlies attack enemies and communicate using sound aliases from uberdialog.scr. So if you are not using any altered files, your map really should work when renaming it to test_something.

Although this might be an acceptable solution when distributing your map, I suggest you just use altered game files when in the construction phase, because a 'test' map takes a very long loading time (almost 6 minutes on my system).

Oddball_Woof,

Without wanting to argue with you , I just want to say that I'm quite sure that all animations in the new_generic_human.tik are loaded when you rename your map to 'test_' or 'utils_' or when you use that altered file from Wombat. Otherwise, the entire system that checks for map names would be rendered useless. Moreover, when you rename your map to 'test' it loads much slower and will give errors (WARNING: DOWNGRADING TO OLD ANIMATION FORMAT FOR FILE) that indicate that the game IS loading new animations.

jv_map,

6 MINUTES !?!?!?!?
I would love to know your system specs. I expierience no great delay. My system maybe a brand new athlon 1900+ but six minutes does seem a bit much.
How big is your map? How many .pk3s do you have in your main folder?
Does anyone else expierience this ?

This is what I am thinking. It would take a little bit longer as 'test' maps load all animations as opose to level specific ones which only load some. Infact I am thinking that using the new 'new_generic_human.tik' file will have the same effect on maps that use it, that is non SP level specific maps like DM and OBJ or any other map name since it gives the test specific animations to all.


The downgrading error I get on all the test maps has to do with only three animations and their components:

models/human/animation/scripted/flak88_animation.tik
models/human/animation/scripted/sleep.tik
models/human/animation/scripted/throw_helmet.tik

and since I have never seen any of these in the game itself and they are not called in any of the level specific setups, I assume they where infact test animations never used but the refrence to them remains in the test section.
I suspect you could propably remove those from the new_generic_human.tik with no effect on the game.


As for my animation problems.
It could just be that I am refrencing them incorectly in the script. Some of them do work for me like the once used in the M3L3 mission but most don't. I'm going through all the animation related files atm and hopefully I will find the correct use.



Oddball_Woof,

You're right in the fact that I want a self-contained, zero fiddling map. My intention is to build a map as closelly to the original SP missions as possible. ATM I more interested learnning scrippting and mapping then anything else. I have plans to make the final SP into DM and OBJ versions too, but I do enjoy the SP part of the game more.

I am sure that me and uberfix will cross paths soon but I am trying like hell to avoid it.

I have tried using commands such as u mention :
level.grillo say dfr_m1l3_add01
and it does work in some instances but not others, and sometimes you get the sound but not the animation, that's why as I mentioned above, I'm going through the ani files to try to find the correct paths.

If you look through exec ' global/ambient.scr ', you'll find that there is no animation refrence at all. It has to do with the music soundtrack and general ambiance setup for that particular script. i.e. fog.
One intersting thing I found there which I have had no time to investigate is a refrence to '$exterior' and '$interior'. I belive it's a script that will turn off fog once the player enters a room/house which has been defined and refrenced as '$interior' and turn it back on once he leaves and enters the '$exterior'. Propably useless for MP but if anyone has any ideas on useage then i would love to hear from them.

And finally...
It would be nice to have the largest post but I can't think and wonder if any of this has actually helped Manta with his original question??



Thanks
Mirek

Mirek,

Some of your dialogue animations don't work because they are filename dependent as well. If you take a look at any TIKI file of a particular enemy, for example a friendly, you will see that it says: '$include models/human/animation/dialogue/generic_dialogue_US.tik'. Regardless of your map name, this file loads all animations for standard sounds, such as pain and death sounds, but also attack and grenade sounds. However, when you want to use level specific animations, you will have to include a level specific dialogue TIKI, for example 'models/human/animation/dialogue/M1L3_dialogue_US.tik'. This means you will again have to overwrite an original file to get it working, or rename your map to 'test_'.

The $interior and $exterior targetnames in global/ambient.scr refer to triggers that you might create in your map to determine which areas are indoor and which are outdoor. If you then create your own .mus file, ambient.scr will change the sound file when you enter buildings, not the fog. You can hear this in most of the original maps: when you enter a building, the background noise gets softer. If you want to make your own music file, take a look in the .mus files in the 'music' folder in pak0.pk3.

Oddball_Woof,

I don't really have a state of the art machine (P3 500, 128 Megs) and that's why it takes so long for me. I don't have many additional pk3's in my main folder and I measured the loading time for the 'test_firefight' map, a very small map.

one more thing that can be done is to make a my_new_generic_human.tik and then take a ai and change the line in that file that says includes new generic human.tik and change it to my_new_generic_human.tik and change the ai's tik file name to one you make up so that in the editor you know what soldier to choose

Another antique thread found 8).

bdbodger wrote:one more thing that can be done is to make a my_new_generic_human.tik and then take a ai and change the line in that file that says includes new generic human.tik and change it to my_new_generic_human.tik and change the ai's tik file name to one you make up so that in the editor you know what soldier to choose

That's what I was trying to say also. You can read it in the Single player maps without test tutorial.

With all the time that has been spent trying to get them to work on their own you could have read up on it and scripted them by pathnodes by now.

When I made my first map the same thing happened. I threw some ai in for screensshots and suddenly they were shooting at me. But later on they just stopped fighing. Weird. Very weird.

I went to nemesis' tutorial page and found everything I needed to program ai. It's fun. With so many options and variants you can really customize your ememies and friends. My favorite is the the cover nodes and leashes. It's funny to make them charge you then run away yelling like a girl.

If you notice, sometimes using "test_" will affect your AI. That time, my American soldier spoke a British accent "over there". It's very distinctive, the strong accent.

Cool. My next project, making =Iron Tusk= sp, will pit me against all types of variants with ai. I hope I can find info on mixing up the ai.