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hey, this got off topic on page two! isnt it odd? Look at the topic people? it went from measurement,to the french and a tonna other stuff? WHAT HAPPENED HERE?

Yeah its cool how the subject changes, many people have lots of issues to deal with, me more than most I guess

funny how the younger crowd here is so concearned with topic, age and spam instead of contributing to a descent conversation.

So what that this started off with a dumb topic, its trying to improve. Go with the flow, man.

lol not this addition to the younger crowd. i like debates. even tho i'm not exactly adept at them, but that's how you learn right?

Thats the best attitude to have Lizard, we all become wiser by listening ( or rather reading here ) other peoples points of view, they are all valid even if you totally disagree with whats being said.

I like that we have such clever people around this forum to wise us all up

I just found this link about John Kerry the guy running against Bush, and talking lots of crap about he is a war HERO while Bush ducked the draft, seems he is really talking crap

http://humaneventsonline.com.edgesuite. ... o_wmv.html

Enjoy

do you know why this ad is being made? or are you just going on bits of information?

let me jsut put it this way -

say you were in a war. You fought, got some purple hearts, and then went back for more willingly. Then, you are out of the war, and you decide the whole war was unjust and stupid, and all the poeple you saw die were a waste of human life. You then protested the war actively. From then on, you were NOT popular with soldiers. In fact, you did about the least popular thing a soldier can ever do. You protested a war you had fought in. Now, after all that, what do you expect to happen if you run for president as a democrat?

-A soldier who turns around like he did and joins protest, especialy someone as visible as him, is about the most unpopular guy in the world as far as many soldiers are concerned. What do you expect all the soldiers he served with to 'forgive' him? Im sure many did, they didnt get interviewed though. The expectation here, is that he would not be popular with many veterans groups. Have you ever heard them talk about war protesters? Do you think they are 'cool with it'? The average soldier cannot differentiate between someone excersizeing thier rights in a free country, and a personal insult. Just look at how many of them attackle a 15 year old girl who turned away during sports matches when the nathem was played. This was about as benign a protest as you can have, and yet the words thrown about by veterans and soldiers were awful.

Im not saying hes a war hero, I wouldnt know. Maybe he liked beign a screw up i ncombat so much he decided to go back for more.

point is, if your looking at that ad as a non-partisan public service announcement, especialy without considering his personal tense background with veterans groups, your not really learning much of anything.

maybe they are all correct, maybe they are all wrong, but one things for sure, they have plenty of motive to make you believe thier version.

eh politics.

Im from the UK so I'm not up on my US politics too much.

From the wafer thin slices of the election I see here the only thing I gleaned is that Kerry is playing the Hero card while pointing out Bush dodged the draft, thats about all I know of the campaign.

That ad from the link, wouldnt make it onto TV here, so to an outsider its amusing that the guys he fought with are trying to throw a spanner in Kerry's works. So their angry as he became anti-war ? They dont tell us anything about the details here.

In a UK election the broadcasts mainly focus on the failings of the opposition parties policies rather than personal attacks on the candidates. Though when they debate in the house of commons it sometimes degenerates into a schoolyard and they all end up shouting at eachother, its good viewing.

Im from the UK so I'm not up on my US politics too much.

From the wafer thin slices of the election I see here the only thing I gleaned is that Kerry is playing the Hero card while pointing out Bush dodged the draft, thats about all I know of the campaign.

That ad from the link, wouldnt make it onto TV here, so to an outsider its amusing that the guys he fought with are trying to throw a spanner in Kerry's works. So their angry as he became anti-war ? They dont tell us anything about the details here.

In a UK election the broadcasts mainly focus on the failings of the opposition parties policies rather than personal attacks on the candidates. Though when they debate in the house of commons it sometimes degenerates into a schoolyard and they all end up shouting at eachother, its good viewing.

The newest reality show on tv, ''When Parties Debate''

Splaetos wrote:do you know why this ad is being made? or are you just going on bits of information?

let me jsut put it this way -

say you were in a war. You fought, got some purple hearts, and then went back for more willingly. Then, you are out of the war, and you decide the whole war was unjust and stupid, and all the poeple you saw die were a waste of human life. You then protested the war actively. From then on, you were NOT popular with soldiers. In fact, you did about the least popular thing a soldier can ever do. You protested a war you had fought in. Now, after all that, what do you expect to happen if you run for president as a democrat?

-A soldier who turns around like he did and joins protest, especialy someone as visible as him, is about the most unpopular guy in the world as far as many soldiers are concerned. What do you expect all the soldiers he served with to 'forgive' him? Im sure many did, they didnt get interviewed though. The expectation here, is that he would not be popular with many veterans groups. Have you ever heard them talk about war protesters? Do you think they are 'cool with it'? The average soldier cannot differentiate between someone excersizeing thier rights in a free country, and a personal insult. Just look at how many of them attackle a 15 year old girl who turned away during sports matches when the nathem was played. This was about as benign a protest as you can have, and yet the words thrown about by veterans and soldiers were awful.

Im not saying hes a war hero, I wouldnt know. Maybe he liked beign a screw up i ncombat so much he decided to go back for more.

point is, if your looking at that ad as a non-partisan public service announcement, especialy without considering his personal tense background with veterans groups, your not really learning much of anything.

maybe they are all correct, maybe they are all wrong, but one things for sure, they have plenty of motive to make you believe thier version.

eh politics.

Looks like some1 doesnt like kerry much. I dont either.

Kerry isnt running ads saying hes a war hero, nor does he really mention it much that I am aware.

However, since George Bush opted out of Vietnam, and walks around in fatigues at the drop of a hat(by the way he prolly cant spell 'fatigue' or well... walk) everyone else is talking about it.

I dont believe that many people are as callous and... downright evil, as that ad you posted is trying to suggest. Frankly, that Ad disturbs me. ALOT. Now they are going back to find people who were in hell with a guy to say bad stuff about him? This is all really disturbing to me, and if I hadnt been sad to be an American before, this would have made me so.

Everything you see on TV is BS, even the history & learning channels are from a certain perspective, So the ads I see I dismiss.
What's important usually gets lost in grade school slander and thats an embarressment to the us politics.
The Presidency is a token position believe it or not. Their are secret organizations with the most powerfull people in the US that pull the strings of our society, Bush's are a part of that organization. I didn't just make this up, I've seen 2 different documentarys on it.

hogleg wrote:Everything you see on TV is BS, even the history & learning channels are from a certain perspective, So the ads I see I dismiss.
What's important usually gets lost in grade school slander and thats an embarressment to the us politics.
The Presidency is a token position believe it or not. Their are secret organizations with the most powerfull people in the US that pull the strings of our society, Bush's are a part of that organization. I didn't just make this up, I've seen 2 different documentarys on it.

ok so is the first part or the second part correct?

if you dont believe anything you see from the media, how does seeing documentaries on 'secret governments' convicne you of anything?

And no, the president isnt a 'token' power. Since legally he has more power then anyone in the world(due to the US size and stature), the only way he could be a 'figurehead' would be if you could pre-determine each winner. Recent Presidents have shown the extents to which they can bypass statewide and international checks and balances with the right approach.

I just knew some1 was going to say that. We all get input from various sources, we have to weigh it out and make the decision based on sources of information. So when I watch a special on 20/20 or 60 minutes you have got to believe that the over-all story is correct maybe some details were not right or twisted but the over-all story I believe.

I will investigate the "secret organization" some more though.
Kissinger is part of the organization. He carries more clout than the President. I'm not making this up! I'll get the name of this organization and post it here.

And Yes, he is a token power. Unless Henry Kissinger lies.
America see's him as a real power, but only a small group know
that the real decisions are made "underground", by the secret society that Bush is a part of...........I'll get some facts.

Ok, its called "Skull & Bones heres a link:
http://www.jeremiahproject.com/newworld ... der03.html

The people are given the illision that we know and have a say in whats going on in this country but sorry, we don't have a clue.
A line from the Skull & Bones society's documentation:

"By this plan, we shall direct all mankind in this manner. And, by the simplest means, we shall set all in motion and in flames. The occupations must be so allotted and contrived that we may, in secret, influence all political transactions."

Great! Now I'm paranoid

hogleg wrote:funny how the younger crowd here is so concearned with topic, age and spam instead of contributing to a descent conversation.

So what that this started off with a dumb topic, its trying to improve. Go with the flow, man.

lol, im a younger one (though i dont say my age), and though ive been away i've been trying to contribute to the conversation... in fact i was one of those who started it

Splaetos wrote: And no, the president isnt a 'token' power. Since legally he has more power then anyone in the world(due to the US size and stature), the only way he could be a 'figurehead' would be if you could pre-determine each winner. Recent Presidents have shown the extents to which they can bypass statewide and international checks and balances with the right approach.

Well there is some evidence to suggest that future US Presidents are actually put into their job by a so called Secret Society, heres a pic taken at Bohemian Grove in the 50's I believe, it includes President Eisenhower and the future presidents Nixon and Reagan all seated at the same table happily talking about the new world order ?



We had this stuff come up in a thread a long time ago. Seems at the Grove they have pagan rituals, dress up like the KKK, worship a huge stone owl and apparantly indulge in human sacrifice ( well they say its an effigy of a human but who can tell ) this is fact, the Presidents do actually perform this stuff at the grove.

Here a video clip I just found : http://www.bikesandpeds.com/nazaire/bohemiangrove.wmv which I know does not show anythng cept a couple of weirdo's but hey its a real place

Heres another clip I have not watched yet but purports to show the sacrifice ceremony http://www.prisonplanet.com/grove56k.ram

Splaetos wrote: And no, the president isnt a 'token' power. Since legally he has more power then anyone in the world(due to the US size and stature), the only way he could be a 'figurehead' would be if you could pre-determine each winner. Recent Presidents have shown the extents to which they can bypass statewide and international checks and balances with the right approach.

no, i think the UN has more power than america