.Map :: MoHAA Mapping

OK, here's an idea I've been thinking of lately.

First, take look at Open Quartz and OpenArena, get a good idea of what these projects are about. Make sure you do understand what they're about.

I've been getting signals from peeps that they'd like to contribute to the project, but don't have the necessary programming skills. However, they can mod. Why don't we have something along those lines for OpenMoHAA, then? Like, a separate game which only keeps the game logic and mechanics of MoHAA, but is completely free, has totally different textures, menus, maps, models, sounds, scripts, all the content. You know what I mean?

Now that you realize that such a project would require EVERYTHING to be made from scratch. We cannot base our scripts on MoHAA's, we need our own textures, foliage models, everything. Even the state machine (the global/mike_*.st files).

The problem at the moment is the lack of tools. While maps made with the AA Radiant are good to go (the AA Radiant does not have an EULA and is totally unsupported, meaning EA can't claim your work, whereas the Spearhead SDK, and as a consequence its Radiant, has an EULA whose contents I cannot recall, but I'm pretty sure they reserve a right to all mods made with it), there's no freely accessible tool for model and animations creation, which is essential, because we can't use AA's anims either. Plugins for Blender are on the way, though. So, while our possibilities are currently a tad limited, we could already start some work and expand the scope when tools become available.

As I see it, this shouldn't become a "mod team" in its usual meaning, with some kind of membership and stuff. I think we should adopt a contribution-based scheme, just like OpenArena - you can be a total outsider, but if you make something, you can always contribute it to the project, your content gets in the official pk3s, your name appears in the credits.

One more thing: for various reasons all the content should be licensed either under the GPL (for stuff that has some kind of source files that get translated into a format read by the engine, like maps or models) or the Creative Commons license (for media which doesn't have source files as such - sound samples, etc.). The former being the preferred one.

So, what do you guys think? Do we start this initiative out?

I'm all up for it. This is definitely something I can spend my time in to help out. Especially the shader files.

We will definitely need more support from modders, maybe we can work together with MRU and other modders.

I'll talk to Cobra, and bring it up on TMT once we agree to go on with this.

I thought Modern Warfare IO was to run on the OMoHAA Engine.
Well anyway I guess you can mod the engine to make it accept GLM or MD3 models which can be made with Milkshape.
GtkRadiant ( a popular Q3 mapping program) has a GPL license so you can mod its source to make mapping tools.
So if you want to start a project I want in.
What kind of game? I'm not a fan of fantasy and games with unrealistic weapons.
Oh and how are you going to get the sounds and textures? Sounds kinda hard!

well if we decide to do so, we'll need experienced modelers & texturers. That's something that's out of my league.

I would be all up for the md3 models since ioq3 supports it as a default, just need to find people as I mentioned before. Keep in mind, if you do switch to md3, you'll have to switch everything over. vehicles, all players\humans, animals, weapons, etc etc.. Thats alot of work.

211476 wrote:I thought Modern Warfare IO was to run on the OMoHAA Engine.

It was not, but I recently made the the decision that it is. This has a lot of advantages, because I wanted some of similar functionality to MoHAA in MWIO, and this way 1) I'm not going to be doing parallel work on 2 engines and 2) MWIO will be a much more direct descendant of MW.

211476 wrote:Well anyway I guess you can mod the engine to make it accept GLM or MD3 models which can be made with Milkshape.
GtkRadiant ( a popular Q3 mapping program) has a GPL license so you can mod its source to make mapping tools.

No way, GLM and dedicated Milkshape support are TOTALLY out of the question. I'm not forcing artists who want to help out to spend cash on a crappy piece of low-poly 3D software.
And why should we be using those formats? GLM is a commercial one by RAD Game Tools (which means no specs, and don't count me on reverse engineering it). Using MD3s would be a regression (they only support vertex animation). Come on guys, we will have TIKIs, SKDs and SKCs. And if you read my post carefully (from the rest of your post I gather you only skimmed through it) you'd know that plugins for Blender, which is free software, are on their way.
Of course I know of GtkRadiant, but there's no need for it yet (again, read my post carefully).

211476 wrote:So if you want to start a project I want in.
What kind of game? I'm not a fan of fantasy and games with unrealistic weapons.

WW2, of course.

211476 wrote:Oh and how are you going to get the sounds and textures? Sounds kinda hard!

Again, read my first post.

m0d hippY wrote:well if we decide to do so, we'll need experienced modelers & texturers. That's something that's out of my league.

Leave this up to me. I'm sure we'll get the support we'll need.

m0d hippY wrote:I would be all up for the md3 models since ioq3 supports it as a default, just need to find people as I mentioned before. Keep in mind, if you do switch to md3, you'll have to switch everything over. vehicles, all players\humans, animals, weapons, etc etc.. Thats alot of work.

This just isn't happening for reasons I stated above. Crapload of work and regression.

OK, I guess if I wanted in I'll have know how to use Blender first. And I found a mistake in the post above^^

211476 wrote:
I would be all up for the md3 models since ioq3 supports it as a default, just need to find people as I mentioned before. Keep in mind, if you do switch to md3, you'll have to switch everything over. vehicles, all players\humans, animals, weapons, etc etc.. Thats alot of work.

I did not write that

Sorry, my bad.

As for Blender, I recommend the Blender 3D: Noob to Pro wikibook. It took me 2 days and a half to learn enough Blender to create this (my entry in a competition of knowledge about the internet organized by a Polish telecom company, they gave additional points for an advert of their services).

1. nice job.
2. Is that you on the webcam?
3. LOL @ your chat with klownterfit
4. Are those Dell's ewww

But yeah, very cool indeed! I'm just wondering if theres any way to squeeze out a bit more realistic graphics. Obviously textures will play a role in this too, but I'm just curious if they can look more lifelike. I'm probably going overboard here with this. Don't mind me

Ad. 1. Thanks.
Ad. 2. Yes, that's me. Don't tell me I'm ugly, I know that.
Ad. 3. I still had a conversation window open, and as I was trying to get a screenshot of something skype-ish, I opened up a webcam proggy. It was like 1am, I was already in my pyjamas.
Ad. 4. Heh, nope, the PCs and screens are modeled (and textures - textures made from photos) after the ones we have at school. The screens are LG LCDs.

You mean making the Blender renders more realistic? Of course you can get them to be more realistic, I'm just still no Blender pro.

wow those cd trays must've been broken by now
DIALNET SYMFONIA INTERNETU <whats that mean?
internet symphony?

you got it. It's in polish!

So, open arena is free, open and even compatible?
Wonderful!

There was many Total Modifications for MoH:AA. But now we're going to make a totally new game. Sweet!

What about that:
OMoH:AA
Map m1l1 - Training field
Objectives

• Learn to duck, lean, up/down stairs
• Open doors
• Pick up items/weapons/ammo
• Aim training with available weapons (witch can be better with movable targets and precision, such as head shots, torso shots...)
• Usage of items such as binoculars

We could create a topic and start writing . Maybe it's too soon, but we're going to need some scripts, for the game, and for the history, also. Just thinking, as both scripts are difficult and they will need much time to be good. Or leave it, and make the game multiplayer only, it's a simpler option, but there will be a big lack of content.

Better pull out your M1 Garands, Thompsons, and BARs to take pictures of them for textures . We can call it "D-DAY" and include all of the battles from that day. If not that how bout a game from the other side of the war, where you are a German soldier and call it "Zweiter Weltkrieg" (world war two) and make it both single and multiplayer and use JVs bots!

Not sure if this feature will be available, but one thing I would love to see done is the ability to use "smart" bots like quake3 and many other games have support for. jv_map did an amazing job with him bots, and he has to be by far the smartest living MOHAA scripter that comes to mind. Between him and scorpiomidget they were and still continue to be MOHAA legends.

One thing that is lacking with jv_map bots though, is that they have to follow a set path node, so it's not very random as if it were if it was hard coded into the engine similar to that of SP AI.

OpenArena is not compatible with Quake III. It looks different, feels the same, but its data (maps, player models etc.) is not compatible with Q3. Same thing would apply to our free assets package and original MoHAA.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to diss Jv here, I have a lot of respect for him and personally consider him a genious, but jv_bots is "just" a wrapper for the ordinary SP AI. An extremely clever one, but still only a wrapper which doesn't provide AI on its own. OMoHAA currently lacks the backbone AI, but since Crozzbreed joined and volunteered to code it, we can hope for some cool AI.

As for general direction of the free asset project, I'd say we go for a functional MP first, with any WW2 theatre allowed, then we could evolve some kind of script for an SP campaign.