.Map :: MoHAA Mapping

If CSG is used properly it can be a very useful tool and not a wastefull tool.

If your pc is powerful enough to use it without crashing Radiant and you are carefull of what it does to brushes and take care when using it, it can be a very useful tool.

I would agree with those who say not to use it, if your new to mapping and have no idea what you are doing.

IT IS THE DEVIL!!!!

the only time it is acceptable to use is in an empty map file with only a few brushes

-and even then, only if u are subtracting something to make the brushes look destroyed b/c IT MAKES UNSEEN BRUSHES ALL OVER YOUR MAP!

These brushes are undeletable and unselectable and if they appear on your map, you are in trouble...

Yes csg subtract would slot in the axis of evil nicely.

There are a couple of tricks to help you control the subtract process but it still tends to get out of hand. If you want to make sure no damage is done, use the clipper instead.

It's worse than Jen Lopez and Ben afflek. That's pretty bad.

IT IS THE DEVIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chalkboard at Cobra Command-
I swear I will never hit that button again after using it on my last map.
I swear I will never hit that button again after using it on my last map.
I swear I will never hit that button again after using it on my last map.
I swear I will never hit that button again after using it on my last map.

Don't ever ever ever use that button again.........

What kind of bizarre structures are U guys subtracting from? Are U ramming 36-face cylinders through 48-face toruses and freerotating the results? R U insane? Don't!

I use the subtracter to blow holes for doors and windows in walls after I outlined the basics of a structure ( and for f**king up brushes that should look destroyed ).

Shure... sometimes it does not cut like I would, but atleast I get the 3-4 brushes I need, so I can re-shape them into what I want.

I think this discussion is pointless (no offense). Could just as well be about using the "Make Hollow"-tool. Some use it, others don't. To be honost I'm more afraid of those "Select ...?"-options and the crappy "Undo" button! Stuff seems to just disappear.
Luckily you can do most things by hand and have total control over the process. Sure it takes more time, but so what; if you're in a hurry, then don't go mapping.
Functions like CGS and Make Hollow are nothing more than quick and dirty methods and need cleaning afterwards, so you could just as well do it by hand. Labelling it as 'the devil' makes no sense. I have never had any problems with subtracting in the Quark editor, so it's just the unstable mohrad causing the troubles.

You've got a point there Pantera

But I think it is a good idea to raise the issue to warn new mappers that it is not a tool to be used without knowing the possible problems caused by it...

That's true.
But sometimes I get the feeling that most newer mappers are getting scared of tools they've never even touched. All they read is "Don't do this or that!" While I think they should be messing around and see for themselves what the effect is. When I see a question like: "I was thinking of doing this, but what will be the effect?" I'd say just give it a go and find out. Right?

You speak the truth, oh green faced one...

I started the poll and I am not afraid of CSG Subtract. It can be a very useful tool. I was just wondering on eveyones thoughts on the matter. No harm was done.

I have played around alot with Mohradaint on many different types of pcs.
If I was running a low end pc I would not use CSG Subtract since it likes to use as much cpu and memory it can get to acheive the desired end. Most cases using it on lower end pc results in a Moh Radiant crash or those unwanted or strange brushes.

Using my new powerhouse, I have no problem using CSG, and it does not crash Moh Radiant or cause unwanted brushes or strange ones.

I for one do try everything before posting a question. I just make sure map is saved and backed up and try away at. Hell once playing with the find texture command, I turned every brush in my map to chaulk.

Besides failure is not a failure if a lesson is learned.

i'm not telling you what to do and as long as your map is backed up, it's ok, BUT...

try making 20 hallways, each connecting with csg subtract to open holes in walls

-then tell me csg doesn't create crazy, random, indesructable brushes

-if it doesn't then you're lucky, I've done some side testing to figure out the TRUE results of csg and i'll post research soon

just a hint, it's not good news

LOL....would never try subtracting through 20 hallways...

It can be good for destoryed walls, windows, doors, decals, and such.

I have never had a indestructable brush.

Some people use it some people do not....that is what nice about being free...we all have choices:)

Desert Eagle