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All Mohaa windows have bad shader files!
Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2003 1:15 am
by tltrude
I made a test map and put every see-through window I could find in it ( and the broken version of each). Everyone of them gave errors like this:
WARNING: shader 'textures/general_structure/window725_broken' has opaque maps defined after stage 0!!!
WARNING: shader 'textures/general_structure/window725_broken' has depthmask enabled after stage 0!!!
WARNING: shader 'textures/general_structure/window725_frame' has opaque maps defined after stage 0!!!
WARNING: shader 'textures/general_structure/window725_frame' has depthmask enabled after stage 0!!!
When I look over the shader files, they all looked alike. The windows above are the ones I want to use and, other than the errors in the console, they both seem to work fine.
Does anyone have a no-error shader for a frame/broken window?
Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2003 9:22 am
by jv_map
That's right most window textures have bad shaders, that's why they often don't render well on older vid cards
Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2003 12:48 pm
by Bjarne BZR
jv_map wrote:That's right most window textures have bad shaders, that's why they often don't render well on older vid cards
So... how does one of these bad shaders look? Or rather, what exactly is wrong with them and how can they be fixed?
Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2003 2:04 am
by small_sumo
Pm balr14 at tmt he is a shader specialist.
Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2003 8:05 am
by jv_map
Here's a common window shader:
Code: Select all
textures/general_structure/window725_broken
{
qer_editorimage textures/general_structure/window725_frame.tga
qer_keyword broken
qer_keyword window
qer_keyword glass
surfaceparm fence
surfaceparm wood
{
map textures/mohcommon/envnormndy_day.tga
tcgen environment
alphagen const .2
blendFunc blend
alphaFunc GT0
nextbundle
map textures/general_structure/window725_broken.tga
}
{
map textures/general_structure/window725_frame.tga
blendFunc blend
depthWrite
nextbundle
map $lightmap
}
}
I think this error:
WARNING: shader 'textures/general_structure/window725_broken' has opaque maps defined after stage 0!!!
is caused by this line:
map textures/general_structure/window725_frame.tga
and this one:
WARNING: shader 'textures/general_structure/window725_broken' has depthmask enabled after stage 0!!!
by this:
depthWrite
Not sure how to fix it though. Actually I think the _broken and _frame texture should have been made into one texture manually, rather than blending both in game. Not only would this result in a significantly simplified shader, it would also reduce the amount of texels per window (and thus reduce mtex count).
Moreover I think depthWrite should only be used in the first stage, all subsequent stages should use depthFunc equal instead.
Something that surprises me is that the last stage does include a map $lightmap but not a rgbIdentity command. Generally these are used in conjunction with each other.
Shader manual wrote:5.12.4 rgbGen identity
Colors are assumed to be all white (1.0,1.0,1.0). With the addition of the over-bright ?sunlight? emitted from the sky textures, rgbGen identity must be included in all textures with a lightmap.
The alphaFunc GT0 command seems a bit out of place in the environment map stage. I think it should have been placed below the nextbundle command to only affect the broken texture map.
Concludingly I can only admit I really don't know how this shader should have been written properly.
I'll give it a try though, maybe something like this:
Code: Select all
textures/general_structure/window725_broken
{
qer_editorimage textures/general_structure/window725_frame.tga
qer_keyword broken
qer_keyword window
qer_keyword glass
surfaceparm fence
surfaceparm wood
{
map textures/mohcommon/envnormndy_day.tga
tcgen environment
alphagen const .2
blendFunc blend
nextbundle
map textures/general_structure/window725_broken.tga
alphaFunc GT0
nextbundle
map textures/general_structure/window725_frame.tga
alphaFunc GT0
depthWrite
}
{
map $lightmap
rgbGen identity
blendFunc filter
}
}
However I really don't have any idea whether this will work at all, let alone whether it'll be 'better' than the original shader.
Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2003 8:46 am
by Random
jv_map wrote:
Not sure how to fix it though. Actually I think the _broken and _frame texture should have been made into one texture manually, rather than blending both in game. Not only would this result in a significantly simplified shader, it would also reduce the amount of texels per window (and thus reduce mtex count).
WOuld you happen to be refering to this: targetShader"Name" and targetShader"NewName". I was reading up on it in the shader bible recently because im trying to understand more about something i posted earlier.
Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2003 10:01 am
by jv_map
Random wrote:WOuld you happen to be refering to this: targetShader"Name" and targetShader"NewName".
Honestly I have no idea what you are refering to
but in fact I meant the textures should have been made into one texture with a paint program (like Photoshop), instead of mixing both textures at run-time.
Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2003 10:31 am
by Random
http://qeradiant.com/manual/Q3AShader_M ... /appA.html
From the Shader Bible. I thought since this texture was going to be applied to an entity that somehow it applied.
Most everything else you said makes sence after reading through the manual. Lots if nifty useful info in there especially since i am trying to expand my understanding of the things that can be done through shaders alone. A must read for everyone.
Shader Manual
Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2003 2:50 pm
by jv_map
Hmm interesting, this seems like a(nother?) way to control shaders via script.
It has nothing to do with this window texture though
Stages
Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2003 4:40 pm
by tltrude
I too have been re-reading the shader bible. It is not too clear on "stages", but isn't a stage defined by the blending. I think the terms that look like this are what it is missing.
GL_ZERO
GL_ONE_MINUS_SRC_ALPHA
As I remember the one word blenfunctions are short cuts for lines that use the above terms. So, i guess we need to find out what "blendFunc blend" is short for.
I made a colored glass shader, and it doesn't have any console errors. However it is only a pane of blue glass with no frame. I don't have a broken version of it either.
Code: Select all
textures/custom/tblueglass
{
qer_editorimage textures/custom/tblueglass.tga
qer_keyword window
qer_keyword glass
qer_trans .95
surfaceparm glass
cull none
{
map textures/mohcommon/environ_puddle.tga
tcgen environment
alphagen const .4
blendFunc blend
}
{
map textures/custom/tblueglass.tga
blendFunc GL_SRC_ALPHA GL_ONE_MINUS_SRC_ALPHA
}
{
map $lightmap
rgbGen Identity
blendFunc GL_DST_COLOR GL_ZERO
}
}
You can see the glass in this screenshot:
Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2003 9:32 pm
by Random
6.2.1.3 blendfunc blend
Shorthand for blendfunc gl_src_alphagl_one_minus_src_alpha. This is conventional transparency, where part of the background is mixed with part of the texture.
What i have noticed in some shaders it is that it is actually written as such:
blendfunc gl_one_minus_src_alpha gl_src_alpha. Here is an example but they comment out the short hand and write it in again the long way. hmm
Code: Select all
textures/misc_outside/riversf
{
qer_editorimage textures/misc_outside/ocean2.tga
qer_keyword natural
qer_keyword liquid
qer_keyword ocean
qer_trans .4
surfaceparm trans
surfaceparm water
surfaceparm nolightmap
cull none
deformvertexes wave 30 sin 0 5 0 .2
{
map textures/misc_outside/froth.tga
blendFunc GL_ONE_MINUS_SRC_ALPHA GL_SRC_ALPHA
// blendfunc blend //wonder why they comment this out and use long hand too?
// alphaGen lightingSpecular
tcMod scroll .0 0.15
// tcMod scale 2.50 2.50
Cool part is that they throw in some good definitions as well.
Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2003 7:14 am
by jv_map
blendFunc GL_ONE_MINUS_SRC_ALPHA GL_SRC_ALPHA
I think they invert the alpha channel here. Again it would have been easier to modify the image rather than changing the shader...
Anyway tltrude that really is a good looking glass
I think that's the way it has to be made, with just one actual texture stage. To me yours seems much better than the mohaa shaders
black
Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2003 10:38 am
by tltrude
Well, I tried using my blue glass shader for window725_frame and it came out looking like black (smokey) glass that is hard to see through. The frame part of the window was dark as well. My blue glass is like that too (dark blue not black), and I have to uses nodraw on one side to use it. Even with the nodraw, it is hard to see through without a light on the other side.
Random - Looks like they reversed the order in the long hand version of the blend--for that water shader.
jv_map - I tried your window725_broken shader and the textures are not being drawn at all. I get that white and yellow flashy border.